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Victoria Osteen & the response
Victoria Osteen – the “response” that shows she is a typical false teacher
by Sandy Simpson, 9/8/14
It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be “Christian” leaders are apparently NEVER able to admit when they are wrong. Makes you wonder if they are born again because acceptance of the Gospel will cause a person to repent of their sins which then gives them access to the forgiveness of Christ when they sin from that point on (1 John 1:9). But be that as it may, Victoria, the “co-pastor” and wife of Joel Osteen, fires back at the article in the Christian Post entitled: “Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your O... by claiming they lied about what she said. She claims in her statement back to them in the article called “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn... that they claimed that she said a person should not worship God.
"While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it," she told The Blaze in a statement Friday. "I did not mean to imply that we don't worship God; that's ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way." (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
That is not what they said at all. The title of the article is very specific in their correct analysis of her “ridiculous” statement – that she stated that “worship is not for God, it is for yourself”. So she lied in her response.
But the real problems are that she claims the following in her response:
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy … So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered. (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
So she not only did not apologize for her statements and lied about how people quoted her, but she reiterated their same, tired, false Word of Faith teaching again. She states that worshipping God is not for Him but for us. Why? Because when we are happy that makes God happy. Oh really? What about the stories of Job, Stephen, Paul suffering from a “thorn”, and all the other prophets and apostles who died serving God? They were not worshipping God so they could be “happy”, they were worshipping God because of Who He is!
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Love and worship for God is not predicated on how we feel or the amount of joy we have. It is predicated on obedience to Him BECAUSE HE IS GOD! Victoria also tells her audience that they need to “do good because God wants you to be happy”. We don’t do good so WE can be happy. That may be a consequence of doing good, at times, but the important thing is that, in the most difficult circumstances, we simply obey Him because we know He will be pleased with us on that basis. But our “happiness” is not the end. But it is for the Osteens. Almost every word of every message from them is the New Thought idea that we can create our own little world of happiness by simply thinking and speaking positively. I have written about this idea, which is basically Karma, in an article entitled “Karma (by any other name)”. God wants us to submit our will to His, not willfully try to create our own reality that is often not in line with His purposes.
Finally, the scary part is that the “congregants cheered” after Victoria finishes her diatribe. This reminds me of a warning from the Old Testament against heretics like the Osteens:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
Someday every person who has ever been born on this earth will answer to God for their actions. You can either fool yourself into thinking you are happy because of your positive thoughts and confessions, or you can follow God and obey Him, thus proving your love for Him. Better choose correctly because “what will you do in the end?”
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Seek,
I hear your frustration, but want to acknowledge that it is a good thing! You are, and will grow because of it.
What it actually revealed to me is that most converts who struggle do so because there's no real discipleship anymore.
That is correct.
They don't know if they're obeying God's Word since people believe wrong doctrines and try to espouse those beliefs as correct to where the new convert thinks they must have it all wrong and even question their salvation.
In our current techno age you can ask a question and get hundreds of perspectives to the question. The problem is that most will seek to inject their POV as fact. It is one thing to have a POV and another to find out what God says in His Word clearly and hold up that truth as fact. Most will not differentiate between opinion and fact as they assume their opinion is fact. I will again repeat that many aspire to be a teacher (evidenced by their actions and engagement) when few are really called to teach. When the Bible says “do all teach” it is not implying that only a few should not, but revealing that only a few should. Just look here in our forums. How many website articles are drawn into the conversations to support a POV? Who are these people, where did they come from … they have a website so that means ???? Yet, they are presented as factual usually because the info in the article, get this revelation … aligns with the POV of the person who just brought that article in. Imagine that :-)
They may learn later as I learned this issue. My concerns however is that if we had true leaders and discipleship, no one would have to struggle with these things.
Unfortunately there will be disagreements over certain Scripture until Jesus returns. Part of this is due to, again, the approach to the Bible. What type of hermeneutics do they employ? Are they liberal or fundamental? Etc …It is when we sit under the teachings of people from various camps that we get really confused. Thus it is important in the early stages to establish what you believe regarding God’s Word and seek out those in that camp or you will live life in utter confusion. Some simple questions that have to be answered that I have mentioned before, but they are at the heart of the issue. Do I believe that the Bible is God’s Word or a word about God? Do I see it as literal, allegoric or seek to read it at face value? Do I try to read into Scripture (Eisegesis) or do I seek to draw out what God meant (exegesis). There are principles to operate within that will help us find the truth. It is when we ignore (or are unaware of) these principles that we can get all over the board.
Christianity is a fight between God's truth and the evil of man and satan. Too many waste way too much precious time fighting to believe they even know what God wants of them to bother fighting what they should be fighting.
I agree with the statement, but not being picky, but rather to make a point ... if we employ the logic you have been using regarding essentials and non-essentials how would one know what they should be fighting for instead of the other less important things they tend to fight for? There has to be a standard.
I know there's a lot of talk of end times and we need to save as many souls as we can but is telling someone of Christ going to do them any good if we don't stick around to disciple them?
If you haven’t figured it out yet about me, I am not big on trying to figure the end out. I believe that most are going to be shocked at how God (who knows exactly how He will do it) actually plays it out. A large portion of Scripture that is written outlining the end times is written in symbolism and every generation attempts to fit the symbolism into what is current in our age … and every generation to date has been wrong. A lot of energy today is spent on this and millions of dollars are being earned by those who profess to have a deeper knowledge on this topic.
Edited to clarify...to me, at that point, it was essential. If you're locked into thinking you're displeasing God it can be very detrimental making it an essential thing to that individual.Understood, but just because it was essential to you does that really make it essential to God and thus an essential teaching?
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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Many pastors teach Malachi & other OT verses pertaining to tithes. You could base their teachings on the fact that Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but fulfill it. I don't see their teachings as false. It comes from the Word itself. I've used Malachi, tested Him & He's filled me to overflowing. Maybe the way they teach it is wrong. I know some use this as a guilt trip like Seek said somewhere on this discussion. Some use it to say if you need financial blessings you need to do this. I know my late husband talked with his pastor about his marriage (Not Ours). The pastor first asked him "Are you paying your tithes?" I think money is so small to God. There are so many other things that He desires from us & our obedience in our walk then giving a dollar. He doesn't need our money. He just desires us to be obedient in this. He asks us to test Him there. The one & only time He gives us permission to do this. The NT doesn't mention a specific amount & that's between you & the Lord - again my opinion. The lady gave all she had. That doesn't mean she didn't feed her kids & pay her rent first.
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I don't think the time anyone spends searching for the things that please God are wasted. I studied 1 Scripture for an hour yesterday from a discussion only to find out that I was studying the wrong one. That time wasn't wasted though.
The enemy can throw us so off kilter to worry about this & that & the other, that we lose focus. If God, who is big enough to save us & help you find the truth, why isn't He big enough to help others? He uses us to guide others but He uses us because He is in us. I'm not saying we should just drop them cold after salvation but He will grow that root if it is planted in good soil. I believe you need to do what He's called you to do & not worry about the other. He takes care of His own.
As far as the "end times", everyday is a ticking clock regardless of what is going on around us. We're dying a day, everyday. Everyday is everyone's end time.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Many pastors teach Malachi & other OT verses pertaining to tithes. You could base their teachings on the fact that Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but fulfill it. I don't see their teachings as false. It comes from the Word itself.
Thanks Tammy, that verse shows what I was saying about how those preaching tithes can quote scripture that backs up their belief of it. I'm sort of in a mid ground area. I believe we need to pay tithes and offerings. But to state an amount is wrong. Or to use it as a guilt trip on someone is wrong. God especially doesn't want it if our heart isn't in giving it. It's our heart He wants right.
The pastor first asked him "Are you paying your tithes?"
I've decided when I am asked this, my answer is yes. I don't see tithing as 10% or anything. Tithing is what we give to the kingdom. I pay into my church both in money and in small services. I use some of my "tithe" also to pay into other areas like help a homeless person. Of course when they ask the question, the real question they're asking is "Are you paying 10% of all of your income to our church faithfully every month?"
I think money is so small to God. There are so many other things that He desires from us & our obedience in our walk then giving a dollar. He doesn't need our money.
This lends a good argument to the opposite side. He didn't need money, offering or sacrifice, none of it before Christ either. But the priests did need it to live on.
The lady gave all she had. That doesn't mean she didn't feed her kids & pay her rent first.
Yup. And when someone is guilting another into paying as a requirement, they may be causing that person unnecessary hardship. Usually the ones who are holding fast to this view are also those that live in large homes, drive expensive vehicles and have dual incomes. And they say this to single mothers struggling with a full time job and paying daycare costs, with one illness after another and eat up in doctor bills, etc. Jesus said His yoke was easy. It's man's yoke that's more like a chain around the neck.
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I studied 1 Scripture for an hour yesterday from a discussion only to find out that I was studying the wrong one.
Why does this not surprise me? And yet I still had a good laugh when I read it.
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Question pertaining the tithe:
When did it become all about money instead of what is described in Scripture?
Food for thought ...
Lord Bless,
LT
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Question pertaining the tithe:
When did it become all about money instead of what is described in Scripture?
Well ok, but I don't think you're gonna like my answer.
The day it was first mentioned?
Men have always been able to turn something into profit for themselves so from the moment tithe was coined (pardon the pun...or not), someone already had a gleam in their eye on a get rich quick scheme no doubt.
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Insufficient answer. Please expound. Does what Abraham did with Melchizedek qualify as a rule for tithing and if so, what did he actually tithe? Is the rule for tithing what was given to the nation of Israel in regards to operating as a nation and to provide care for the priests establish the rule for today? If so, what was the tithe that was called for? What is the rule given regarding tithing in the NT and in what verse do we find this rule given or repeated as applied to the church?
If biblical tithing is to be expected today, then what are we supposed to tithe and why is the expectation, and only expectation, money?
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Personally, I think the view on tithes is bi-polar then views of salvation. Actually, I know it is.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Seek,
What I've been trying to say is that most people who turn to Christ and are born again don't generally know or understand all the doctrines of the Christian faith, essential or secondary ones, but do have an understanding regarding sin, themselves not being good enough and needing salvation, and seeing Jesus as Lord and Savior. They begin to learn. New believers can very easily be influenced by false teachers or by teachings that are just in error, and I'm trying to say that knowing what makes a false teacher truly a false teacher is important, since none of us have it all right, all of the time. When people err from essential doctrines, we can identify them as being false teachers. The Scriptures are given to warn us and my point is only that we sometimes get caught up in the minor issues when the major ones are what matters. Soteriology -- the doctrine of salvation is a major, or essential, doctrine. It's important for seekers and new believers and everyone IMO to know why the Osteens or others are in error by pointing out the major issues.
I was only 19 when I was greatly influenced by errant teachings.
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