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Victoria Osteen & the response
Victoria Osteen – the “response” that shows she is a typical false teacher
by Sandy Simpson, 9/8/14
It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be “Christian” leaders are apparently NEVER able to admit when they are wrong. Makes you wonder if they are born again because acceptance of the Gospel will cause a person to repent of their sins which then gives them access to the forgiveness of Christ when they sin from that point on (1 John 1:9). But be that as it may, Victoria, the “co-pastor” and wife of Joel Osteen, fires back at the article in the Christian Post entitled: “Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your O... by claiming they lied about what she said. She claims in her statement back to them in the article called “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn... that they claimed that she said a person should not worship God.
"While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it," she told The Blaze in a statement Friday. "I did not mean to imply that we don't worship God; that's ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way." (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
That is not what they said at all. The title of the article is very specific in their correct analysis of her “ridiculous” statement – that she stated that “worship is not for God, it is for yourself”. So she lied in her response.
But the real problems are that she claims the following in her response:
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy … So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered. (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
So she not only did not apologize for her statements and lied about how people quoted her, but she reiterated their same, tired, false Word of Faith teaching again. She states that worshipping God is not for Him but for us. Why? Because when we are happy that makes God happy. Oh really? What about the stories of Job, Stephen, Paul suffering from a “thorn”, and all the other prophets and apostles who died serving God? They were not worshipping God so they could be “happy”, they were worshipping God because of Who He is!
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Love and worship for God is not predicated on how we feel or the amount of joy we have. It is predicated on obedience to Him BECAUSE HE IS GOD! Victoria also tells her audience that they need to “do good because God wants you to be happy”. We don’t do good so WE can be happy. That may be a consequence of doing good, at times, but the important thing is that, in the most difficult circumstances, we simply obey Him because we know He will be pleased with us on that basis. But our “happiness” is not the end. But it is for the Osteens. Almost every word of every message from them is the New Thought idea that we can create our own little world of happiness by simply thinking and speaking positively. I have written about this idea, which is basically Karma, in an article entitled “Karma (by any other name)”. God wants us to submit our will to His, not willfully try to create our own reality that is often not in line with His purposes.
Finally, the scary part is that the “congregants cheered” after Victoria finishes her diatribe. This reminds me of a warning from the Old Testament against heretics like the Osteens:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
Someday every person who has ever been born on this earth will answer to God for their actions. You can either fool yourself into thinking you are happy because of your positive thoughts and confessions, or you can follow God and obey Him, thus proving your love for Him. Better choose correctly because “what will you do in the end?”
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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You're trying to explain what you see about the earth and those things those that think they are wise are trying, in their own limited understanding, to date.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Eric,
To point 1 I would simply say that as a simple man that I might be in error in some of my thinking, but cannot accept that God has deceived me in His writings.I spend more time than most examining my faith and my core beliefs. In that examination I look to see how my beliefs harmonize with the Word of God and how each belief harmonizes with each other. Whenever a disconnect appears to be there I dig into that area looking for my error, for God's Word is never in error.
I have two choices regarding this subject. I can take God at His Word which, with rare exception, has been accepted by the children of God down through the years and means six literal days or I can attempt to understand God's Word through the lenses of the scientific community.
So, in my choice I have to ponder the following.
Did God allow the church to be mislead for thousands of years regarding creation? Did God intentionally deceive the church with language that implies 6 days only to mean 6 periods of time?
Or
Do I try to reinterpret the Bible based on science, of which the majority (not all) do not acknowledge God and who argue that in science God cannot be factored in to the equation. Do I try to reinterpret the Bible based on science with its ever changing conclusions? By this I simply mean have you read science books from 50, 100, 200 years ago? How much of what they believed to be scientific fact in those eras has turned out to be false? Can science answer the questions or only pose what they view as plausible solutions based on current information? What do we do with physics? Is physics God and thus our God limited by the laws of physics, or is He God who created the laws of physics and is able to operate outside of those rules? When we come to certain portions of Scripture we often hear that either it cannot be true or is an allegory or needs to be interpreted differently. Did the whole earth flood to where the mountains were 20 feet below sea water? Did it remain daylight for a period of nearly 24 hours? Did an actual great fish swallow Jonah? Did Jesus (and Peter) walk in water? Did Jesus feed 4000 and 5000, plus women and children, with only a little bread and few fish? I read these accounts (I do not call them stories) and accept them as true. Many in the scientific realm cannot accept these to be accurate accounts and will often try to draw a line between science and philosophy. I see these accounts as neither scientific data, for it cannot be recreated and tested, nor is it a mere philosophy. It goes far beyond either, for in Christ we have a relationship with the living God and this relationship is affirmed both by His Word and by His Spirit. To the world that is blind to Him we appear to be foolish, but we have an assurance and a relationship that they cannot understand. It cannot be tested in a lab, nor will those who have tasted of the Lord and know He is good be dissuaded from a simple belief in Him.
Please understand that in my response I am speaking straightforward. You have not upset me or unsettled me in any way.
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Tools are very useful to accomplish specific jobs when the right tool is in the hands of the right craftsman.
I think if a scientist uses these tools carefully they will see God's work and it will not prove what some think. There are those who are not trying to change or interpret the word but instead, see it in action.
For the record I am not anti-science, but I do not trust in science over the Word of God. Many times the two will appear to be in harmony. At other times not so. I think a large segment of the scientific community has its vision clouded by the framework that has been established that excludes God ... even to the point of ridicule. This is not all who are in the scientific community, but even those who believe in creation (old or young) are frowned upon and limited by the overall community if they take a stand.
I am a believer that the proof of His creation, of this world and us , will be the greatest finding of science ever.
We will respectfully disagree on this one.
Regarding the first segment I guess I failed to convey what I meant. I was not attempting to defend myself, but to illustrate that we need to examine our faith and beliefs to ensure that they are in harmony with the totality of Scripture. If we find a crack, or break, we need to locate the cause of the break and seek to come into alignment with the whole of God's Word and not just segments of the Word as many often do.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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Eric,
I have read all of you and Roy's back and forths, even on your pages, in the comments & I have truly enjoyed the intelligence shared by both and the integrity you both share. I found it to be quite an invigorating conversation...and both sides duly had passions and preferences to be heard. I really Thank You for that.
While I believe in the way of the Bible, the literal 6 days creation, sun and moon, dusk to dawn, etc., you brought some valid points...and while I don't have much to bring to the table that others haven't already brought...I thought of the Bumble Bee. I know, sounds silly, but scientists couldn't figure out how the Bumble Bee was able to fly according to their studies...it beat the law of physics. They at one time...sorry, haven't kept up to date on it, said it was due to the X-factor...not the t.v. show, but because they couldn't explain it.
I believe the Lord did everything He said He did...In fact, He created the gravity to such a perfect level, that this little ball keeps turning with nothing underneath holding it in it's place. Isn't that just amazing? The tiniest globe, is filled with God's wonder, the mountains, springs, creeks, and the thrust of the mighty oceans, woody areas filled with so much rain, it keeps moss on the trees, the canyons filled with endless beauty, the valleys sometimes viewed as the time of discipline or aloneness, are filled with beauty...the flowers and high scopes of the mountains, the deserts filled with even more beauty, cacti that can live for years with little to no water, desert flowers that do the same, the snow falling and insulating the earth...igloos, anytime, anywhere you can meet these beautiful picturesque moments [but it's def. in the eye of the beholder]...but the truly beautiful thing is what He's done, is He's given it to His created, man on the 6th day.
Genesis 1:
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The First Day: Light
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
The Second Day: Firmament
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
The Third Day: Dry Ground
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
The Fourth Day: Sun, Moon, Stars
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
The Fifth Day: Fish and Birds
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
The Sixth Day: Creatures on Land
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
And the 7th day....Genesis 2 God Rests
Gen. 2:3--And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
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I'm curious on this. When you say the accepted belief is the 6 days are literal days, how do these fit in?
Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
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Time is not relevant to the Lord who is eternal to the exception that He created it and put man within that timeline in which we now live. God does not change, nor does He age. He sees the past as clearly as He sees the present and into the future. This is beyond our understanding, but again time was not created for God, but rather for man by God.
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Eric,
Sorry, but I do not see the length of the seventh day as any different than the previous 6. Relating to your secondary question in the description of creation we see literal time, whether we accept it as literal 24 hours or literal long periods of time it is still traceable time. The verses posted by Seek relate to how time relates to God, who is unchanging, never ages and is the Creator of time. To Him a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. He is unaffected by time. At the same time He established time and uses time in the description of Creation. Two very different things.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Eric, sorry, but the concession made that even if it were long periods of time would be traceable is not stated as an open door to long periods, for again the straightforward reading leaves us with no true alternative but 6 literal days and not long undetermined periods. The inclusion of periods is only to illustrate that God would not be changed by either ... He would still be God. In His Word He gave us a chronology of His work . He chose to put it into a time frame and to explain that time frame.
It is amazing how my recent comment (my two individual comments) can be taken out of context. Great example, when you read all of my comments in the two related forums one can only concluded that I mean 6 literal days, but if you read the one post with two individual comments you can attempt to read into it something totally different (Exegesis vs Eisegesis). That is exactly how people misread the Bible regularly. Each piece must be in alignment with the whole and cannot be broken out as a separate piece with a separate meaning regardless of what the rest of Scripture says.
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I thought when you said literal days you meant like a day as we know it...24 hours.
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Well...did you? I can't tell again since you asked that. Above you said God wasn't affected by time and said whether we accept it as 24 hours or long days....I thought you were saying the days may not have been just 24 hours, but earlier when you said literal days I thought you did mean as in 24 hours.
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