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Victoria Osteen & the response
Victoria Osteen – the “response” that shows she is a typical false teacher
by Sandy Simpson, 9/8/14
It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be “Christian” leaders are apparently NEVER able to admit when they are wrong. Makes you wonder if they are born again because acceptance of the Gospel will cause a person to repent of their sins which then gives them access to the forgiveness of Christ when they sin from that point on (1 John 1:9). But be that as it may, Victoria, the “co-pastor” and wife of Joel Osteen, fires back at the article in the Christian Post entitled: “Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your O... by claiming they lied about what she said. She claims in her statement back to them in the article called “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn... that they claimed that she said a person should not worship God.
"While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it," she told The Blaze in a statement Friday. "I did not mean to imply that we don't worship God; that's ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way." (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
That is not what they said at all. The title of the article is very specific in their correct analysis of her “ridiculous” statement – that she stated that “worship is not for God, it is for yourself”. So she lied in her response.
But the real problems are that she claims the following in her response:
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy … So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered. (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
So she not only did not apologize for her statements and lied about how people quoted her, but she reiterated their same, tired, false Word of Faith teaching again. She states that worshipping God is not for Him but for us. Why? Because when we are happy that makes God happy. Oh really? What about the stories of Job, Stephen, Paul suffering from a “thorn”, and all the other prophets and apostles who died serving God? They were not worshipping God so they could be “happy”, they were worshipping God because of Who He is!
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Love and worship for God is not predicated on how we feel or the amount of joy we have. It is predicated on obedience to Him BECAUSE HE IS GOD! Victoria also tells her audience that they need to “do good because God wants you to be happy”. We don’t do good so WE can be happy. That may be a consequence of doing good, at times, but the important thing is that, in the most difficult circumstances, we simply obey Him because we know He will be pleased with us on that basis. But our “happiness” is not the end. But it is for the Osteens. Almost every word of every message from them is the New Thought idea that we can create our own little world of happiness by simply thinking and speaking positively. I have written about this idea, which is basically Karma, in an article entitled “Karma (by any other name)”. God wants us to submit our will to His, not willfully try to create our own reality that is often not in line with His purposes.
Finally, the scary part is that the “congregants cheered” after Victoria finishes her diatribe. This reminds me of a warning from the Old Testament against heretics like the Osteens:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
Someday every person who has ever been born on this earth will answer to God for their actions. You can either fool yourself into thinking you are happy because of your positive thoughts and confessions, or you can follow God and obey Him, thus proving your love for Him. Better choose correctly because “what will you do in the end?”
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Roy,
Again, I would ask for some clarity about what you believe the Bible teaches. The focus, though not clearly stated, in this discussion revolves around both ideas relating to losing salvation and what is necessary to retain it.
You and I agree that true salvation cannot be lost, though we differ on some other points.
My first question is this, though salvation cannot be lost once transformation has taken place do you believe that there are consequences for living a life that is not in alignment with God's Word?
Do you believe that the Bible lists sins within the Word that are things we as Christians are to avoid and not do?
Do you believe that there is such a thing as errant teaching within the church? Teaching that does not align His given Word?
Do you believe that errant teaching (assuming you believe there is errant teaching within the church) affect the child of God and can misguide them into living a life that is displeasing to God?
As a pastor, as I am, do you believe that we are called to address errant teaching or ignore it?
Do you believe that errant teaching can cause roadblocks for those seeking Christ (I understand your Calvinistic view, so I am not asking if those marked for salvation can miss it, but rather does the errant teaching have an adverse affect on them)?
Does the Bible call us to live holy lives or is it just a suggestion?
While it is true that our perfection is in Christ, is there any responsibility on our part to seek to live holy, God honoring, lives in this life on earth?
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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From that link LT:
Ultimately, it is our view that both systems fail in that they attempt to explain the unexplainable.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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LT,
I am pretty sure that you know the answers to all these questions but I will reiterate them for the benefit of others.
First of all, I am very much against sin as is Scripture. God calls us away from sin because of His great love for us. Sin if so very hurtful to His people. I also call people to come away from all those sins mentioned in the Bible. I think the greatest consequence of sin is the hurt that it causes us. This world is hurting. The church is hurting. We are being compromised. We need revival.
I also believe God takes action when we sin. He does that again because of His great love. None of us take pleasure in discipline but enjoy a harvest of love and joy when we humbly accept it and learn from it. Sin can bring great devastation to the believer but God's discipline brings peace.
God calls us away from sin. One of the more devastating sins is sexual sin. As a school teacher, I see first hand the devastating effect this sin has on the children. Divorce is another great sin that hurts so much. We need to avoid these sins at all cost. Losing a member of our bodies would be better than losing our family. My heart aches for all these children. I have worked with many of them that suffer for from their parents participating in these sins. Our churches are full of so many of these kids. I can better understand why God said that He hated divorce. He loves the people but hates the results of sin on His children. So, do I.
Since He has made us holy, He calls us to live holy lives. We are not like what we were. We have been changed. We are not to participate in the lifestyles of the world. I do my best to practice this. I believe we should be able to be recognized by those around us as being different.
I do believe these things very strongly. What I don't believe is that these believers that are struggling in this very evil world are lost. As I mentioned to Tammy, I believe we need to do better. We need to work harder to live godly lives in our homes in front of our children. All of our children should follow our lead in following Christ. We need to do better. Many of our children are following away. This should not be acceptable to our churches. My only hope is that our children hear the Gospel and do respond in faith. Knowing that helps me to be more patient as we wait for a revival in this nation.
I have done my best to live godly and to preach salvation to my family and God has greatly blessed my wife and me. It is still possible.
Scripture clearly shows us God's patience but eventual actions. Why can't we learn the lessons from Scripture? It does appear that we have to experience hard times to experience revival. I wish it were not like that.
However, as bad as we are, I still believe that God in is mercy will save anyone and everyone that will humble themselves and call upon Him for help.
There are false prophets in our world. I personally don't believe that just because someone says something like what Victoria said, that makes the Osteens false prophets. After the Larry King show episode where Joel appeared to be saying that there were other paths to salvation, I did call him a false prophet. Later he recanted those remarks admitting that was not what Scripture taught. He reiterated his faith that salvation could only be obtained through faith in Jesus. At the time I felt somewhat foolish for jumping too quickly.
Years ago I preached that one had to be living in complete obedience when Jesus came or when they died or they would be lost. I consider that much worse than what Victoria said. I don't believe I was a false prophet at the time. Growing up that is what I was taught. I grew up thinking I could lose my salvation very easily. I was convinced I would never make it to heaven myself since I knew I could not live perfectly. God mercifully showed me His great love and grace early in life and from that point could trust in Jesus for my salvation. I believe I was saved even when I didn't know for sure that I would make heaven. I don't believe I was a false prophet. I really do believe that Joel and Victoria are trusting in Jesus for their salvation.
I have posted many times my disagreement with some of the things they preach. However, I will admit that I still don't have all the answers. As far as errant teaching - that gets a little more complicated. You mentioned me being somewhat Calvinistic. I have been told that I am in error because of my beliefs. The Calvinist might say that the Arminian is in error. I personally don't believe that either are in error. There are many areas where we disagree in the church. I do believe there are essential doctrines necessary for salvation that cannot be rejected. That would be a great forum - the essential doctrines necessary unto salvation.
That particular question is not an easy answer for me. How merciful is He? He did die for all our sins. However, this question might present even greater negative consequences. I think it is very important to be faithful to His Word. As you mentioned once, it even seems that I have made a belief in a young earth necessary to being saved. Well, if I ever did think that, I no longer do. This is another area that I think we have been compromised. I am going to need a lot of help with this one.
I have reviewed each of your questions and feel I have honestly answered them. Today, I am pretty Calvinistic. Tomorrow, I might be more Arminian. However, one thing that will never change for me is that my salvation is totally dependent on my Savior and God Jesus Christ. I will always seek to be faithful to Him and His Word as I know you will.
Thanks for the opportunity. However, I don't have time to review this as it is time to leave for church. Have a great day in your church.
Roy
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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Hi Roy,
So, you go to the church that we've actually been talking about huh? lol. Sorry, I just found that humorous. It's like talking about someone's mama & not knowing it is their mama. I still stick to my beliefs on them however.
About works for salvation: I don't believe I ever said salvation costed anything. It's given freely so that we cannot boast about any of it. The Scriptures I posted were just that, Scriptures. Hard to argue with the word. I also know we fail but I think we do it less daily as we grow in Him. He tells us to be holy AS He is holy. Why would he give a command that He knows we're going to fail? Is He setting us up to fail? I think it's a doable situation personally but not sure I'll ever reach it. Yes, I do fail of course but I'm not sure how often I ask for forgiveness - maybe every few months or so. It's usually about how I run my mouth without thinking about it first or praying about it.
Yes, I have actually met a couple of folks who completely followed Christ through their actions? Pretty incredible saints actually.
Evidently, I had the wrong folks when you were comparing 2 camps. LT just sent me a link showing me what 2 groups you were referring to so take all those comments & trash them. lol.
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Roy,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I was not trying to put you on the spot, but felt it important to get into the discussion exactly what you believe, and yes, I pretty much knew the answers because we have discussed this more than once over the years :-) I believe that by you putting it out there that others will more clearly understand your position. If I may make one critic, your responses at times come so strongly to the defense of salvation by grace that you appear to not be concerned about the life after salvation ... I know differently and want others to know it as well.
You and I agree on way more than we disagree on and I know we both love and serve the same Jesus, our Lord and Savior!
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Tammy,
Unfortunately the Armenian Church is not the same as Arminianism. One is a denomination and the other a particular belief that is held by people from various different denominations and non-denominations alike.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Thanks LT. I realized that after you gave me that link. I appreciate you setting me straight.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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Yep Roy still around, It's a good thing I live by faith, and not don't live by the calendar, I set my Dr.s appointment the other day and noticed I have been here on this earth for 83 yrs. now, and was told when I was in children's church, that the Lord was coming soon, and it could be tomorrow, well as the country song goes "If tomorrow never comes" I will still be looking for Him, and will still be praising the King of King's and Lord of Lord's.
Still working for a Construction Co. operating heavy equipment part time, he told me the other day his Ins. Co. doesn't want me around, all because of what the calendar says. LOL
JB
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