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Victoria Osteen & the response
Victoria Osteen – the “response” that shows she is a typical false teacher
by Sandy Simpson, 9/8/14
It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be “Christian” leaders are apparently NEVER able to admit when they are wrong. Makes you wonder if they are born again because acceptance of the Gospel will cause a person to repent of their sins which then gives them access to the forgiveness of Christ when they sin from that point on (1 John 1:9). But be that as it may, Victoria, the “co-pastor” and wife of Joel Osteen, fires back at the article in the Christian Post entitled: “Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your O... by claiming they lied about what she said. She claims in her statement back to them in the article called “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn... that they claimed that she said a person should not worship God.
"While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it," she told The Blaze in a statement Friday. "I did not mean to imply that we don't worship God; that's ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way." (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
That is not what they said at all. The title of the article is very specific in their correct analysis of her “ridiculous” statement – that she stated that “worship is not for God, it is for yourself”. So she lied in her response.
But the real problems are that she claims the following in her response:
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy … So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered. (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
So she not only did not apologize for her statements and lied about how people quoted her, but she reiterated their same, tired, false Word of Faith teaching again. She states that worshipping God is not for Him but for us. Why? Because when we are happy that makes God happy. Oh really? What about the stories of Job, Stephen, Paul suffering from a “thorn”, and all the other prophets and apostles who died serving God? They were not worshipping God so they could be “happy”, they were worshipping God because of Who He is!
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Love and worship for God is not predicated on how we feel or the amount of joy we have. It is predicated on obedience to Him BECAUSE HE IS GOD! Victoria also tells her audience that they need to “do good because God wants you to be happy”. We don’t do good so WE can be happy. That may be a consequence of doing good, at times, but the important thing is that, in the most difficult circumstances, we simply obey Him because we know He will be pleased with us on that basis. But our “happiness” is not the end. But it is for the Osteens. Almost every word of every message from them is the New Thought idea that we can create our own little world of happiness by simply thinking and speaking positively. I have written about this idea, which is basically Karma, in an article entitled “Karma (by any other name)”. God wants us to submit our will to His, not willfully try to create our own reality that is often not in line with His purposes.
Finally, the scary part is that the “congregants cheered” after Victoria finishes her diatribe. This reminds me of a warning from the Old Testament against heretics like the Osteens:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
Someday every person who has ever been born on this earth will answer to God for their actions. You can either fool yourself into thinking you are happy because of your positive thoughts and confessions, or you can follow God and obey Him, thus proving your love for Him. Better choose correctly because “what will you do in the end?”
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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They're interrelated but 2 different words are used for a reason and I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between them and still don't get how they differ.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Rather than trying to figure each one out, let's recognize that both were required of Israel. If both were required of Israel and we today want to claim that the tithe stands (which I do not) we must then ask why doesn't the other offerings stand too.
In other words what rationale is there for telling the church you must tithe and then tell the church you don't need to worry about the other offerings that were given (and we are not talking about blood sacrifices here). We cannot pick one and exclude the other without a clear reason to do so.
Yet, when we understand that this was not commands meant for the church, but was given to Israel specifically we recognize neither apply today.
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I'm not sure I understand.
If both were required of Israel and we today want to claim that the tithe stands (which I do not) we must then ask why doesn't the other offerings stand too.
Churches preach both tithes and offerings. They do however do away with "sacrifices" because Jesus became the final sacrifice. -
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There is not much else I can say, but will reiterate 2 points.
1) Though silver and other forms of money existed and were used in the OT and by Israel the tithe never mentions money to the exception of exchanging goods for silver only to be exchanged back later as seen in Deuteronomy. Thus, where did the church get the authority to take the prescription of God given to the Israelite people and change it to mean money (if the tithe still existed today as originally given)?
2) Many of the offerings (not sacrifices) and tithe were commanded of Israel (and even there to specific people within Israel). These were not options, but commands. If they were commands to be obeyed how can the church command parishioners to tithe, but not command the obligatory offerings as well. Most churches that teach tithing view a person as stealing from God if they fail to tithe based on Malachi (though they may outwardly seek to coerce the person by emphasizing the idea that if they tithe money God will open His storehouse to them ... and that is not what Malachi teaches). Yet, they do not teach that offerings are required. They will seek to receive freewill offerings. My point is how can one command be expected today and the other command ignored? These are tied together in OT teaching. You cannot take one and exclude the other without a Biblical rationale given.
The tithe is not a command for today. The tithe did not include money and could not be separated from the command to give the other offerings as well. The NT does not reaffirm the tithe anywhere as applied to the church. The church is called to join in God's word and be cheerful givers. In every church I have pastored we do not take up the tithes and offerings. Our giving is an act of worship and we call it "Worship through Giving."
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Something to remember about tithing. God demanded that of the Israelites. Ten percent is not a good measure since they were required under the law to give other tithes other than the Levitical tithe. The true figure was probably closer to twenty percent.
This law is not handed down to the church. For example, we Americans pay taxes which is a kind of tithe. We give to help the poor, build roads, fund an army, etc. Our system is not voluntary. It is mandatory. On top of that we give to the church. We all are to give above that to the work of God. Under the New Covenant we are not given an exact amount. This is probably due to God's knowledge that the Gospel was going to spread all over the earth where there would be all kinds of different systems. A church needs funds to operate. I think systematic giving is very important. It is nice for the church staff to know how much will be coming in to be able to set a budget. Some are to give more than others. It was this way in the very beginning even in Israel. Some are not able to give much at all yet to God sometimes is deemed to give more than all. Personally, I would not expect a mother raising a child on her own to give a lot yet knowing that what is given is a big sacrifice and will be blessed greatly.
On another note: I personally doubt seriously that the Osteens are false prophets. I believe they genuinely believe in Jesus. The Osteen statement of faith:
The Bible
We believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.
The Trinity
We believe in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.
Salvation
We believe Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.
Water Baptism
We believe water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Communion
We believe in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.
Growing Relationship
We believe every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God's Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.
I am not a fan of the prosperity Gospel but I am not offended by Victoria's statement. I could certainly use a little more prosperity. I got hit pretty hard a couple of years ago. I continued to give and found myself to have recovered virtually all my loses in just a short time. It is a miracle.
The Osteens are more Arminian than I but virtually all on this site are more Arminian than I. I used to be offended by these that appear to me to be adding a price tag to salvation. I realize that only God really has all the answers and there is no advantage to being offended. I am not offended by the Arminian message that Joel preaches. Even though it is not in this statement of faith, he actually believes it is possible to lose your salvation by the lack of obedience. Wow! Joel, I totally disagree with you.
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Even people who genuinely believe in Christ and are saved can still get parts of the Word wrong or still be led astray at times by worldly wealth. Peter knew Christ, He love Him. And yet when afraid for his own life, and even knowing ahead of time he was told he would and refusing to believe he ever could...he denied Him three times. But when that cock crowed, he was immediately aware of what he'd done and repented. If one is swayed by wealth, God may open their eyes up at some point and they can repent and turn away or not. But it doesn't mean they're not saved. Sometimes they just truly believe that is what scripture is saying, and sometimes certain things have a hold over them that haven't been broken off. IE: If you're prone to overeat (gluttony), but you keep trying not to, have you lost your salvation?
By the way...
HEYA ROY! ;-)
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Now now. That was no more slanted than the other side of the issue, right? Joyce talking about tithing regardless is slanted one way, and those downing anyone who thinks we should at least try and tithe by nitpicking at them is slanted the other. And you knew I was gonna point that out too didn't ya? LOL!
As I've previously said, I can see the need for a jet for the ministry. Now the mansion? That's another story. If I were you, I'd be more concerned with her home than mode of ministry transportation. ;-P
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Father,
I want to use this opportunity to thank You for the church You have given us. She is not yet perfect but I am very thankful to be a part of this vast congregation of the saints. You have given us all a place to celebrate Your glory. We are all so diverse and we all think we are correct in our thinking. We do understand that we are all so different. We are all at different understanding levels but we all do so love You. We are all imperfect. Sometimes we do consume too much on ourselves when we could be doing more for others. Help us to do better. Help us to feed the poor and to care for those who have less. Help us not to worry about our lives but to serve with reckless abandonment. Thank You so much for the help You have given us to overcome our sins and thank You so much for the forgiveness You give us when we fail. You have given us Your Son to heal us all from our sin. You have made us all whole.
Father, I love You and worship You. I understand that You first loved me and that my love does not begin to measure with Yours. I am so grateful. You have made us whole. In Jesus name.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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You know? everyone is looking for the soon coming of the Lord, "I as well" but it looks like it could be a lot longer than we think, because He gave some Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, "for how long?" till we all come into the "unity of the faith"........ from reading these responses, we are a long way from unity in the faith, aren't we?
JB
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