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Victoria Osteen & the response
Victoria Osteen – the “response” that shows she is a typical false teacher
by Sandy Simpson, 9/8/14
It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be “Christian” leaders are apparently NEVER able to admit when they are wrong. Makes you wonder if they are born again because acceptance of the Gospel will cause a person to repent of their sins which then gives them access to the forgiveness of Christ when they sin from that point on (1 John 1:9). But be that as it may, Victoria, the “co-pastor” and wife of Joel Osteen, fires back at the article in the Christian Post entitled: “Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your O... by claiming they lied about what she said. She claims in her statement back to them in the article called “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn... that they claimed that she said a person should not worship God.
"While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it," she told The Blaze in a statement Friday. "I did not mean to imply that we don't worship God; that's ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way." (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
That is not what they said at all. The title of the article is very specific in their correct analysis of her “ridiculous” statement – that she stated that “worship is not for God, it is for yourself”. So she lied in her response.
But the real problems are that she claims the following in her response:
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy … So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered. (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
So she not only did not apologize for her statements and lied about how people quoted her, but she reiterated their same, tired, false Word of Faith teaching again. She states that worshipping God is not for Him but for us. Why? Because when we are happy that makes God happy. Oh really? What about the stories of Job, Stephen, Paul suffering from a “thorn”, and all the other prophets and apostles who died serving God? They were not worshipping God so they could be “happy”, they were worshipping God because of Who He is!
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Love and worship for God is not predicated on how we feel or the amount of joy we have. It is predicated on obedience to Him BECAUSE HE IS GOD! Victoria also tells her audience that they need to “do good because God wants you to be happy”. We don’t do good so WE can be happy. That may be a consequence of doing good, at times, but the important thing is that, in the most difficult circumstances, we simply obey Him because we know He will be pleased with us on that basis. But our “happiness” is not the end. But it is for the Osteens. Almost every word of every message from them is the New Thought idea that we can create our own little world of happiness by simply thinking and speaking positively. I have written about this idea, which is basically Karma, in an article entitled “Karma (by any other name)”. God wants us to submit our will to His, not willfully try to create our own reality that is often not in line with His purposes.
Finally, the scary part is that the “congregants cheered” after Victoria finishes her diatribe. This reminds me of a warning from the Old Testament against heretics like the Osteens:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
Someday every person who has ever been born on this earth will answer to God for their actions. You can either fool yourself into thinking you are happy because of your positive thoughts and confessions, or you can follow God and obey Him, thus proving your love for Him. Better choose correctly because “what will you do in the end?”
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Though we may not be condemned if we fail unknowingly, we surely want be rewarded for it either.
That's the part I was wondering about. Like Amanda says, the teacher has to remain teachable. But until they've been taught is the question. I know man says "ignorance of the law is no excuse". But I somehow don't see God treating it that way since He's judging the heart of the person.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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And this is why not many should be teachers (especially without a mentor ot teacher overseeing them). Is that what God really wants them to do? Do too many attempt to be teachers before they even have the fundamentals down? Here is another tragic truth. There are many who attempt to teach and yet they have never read the whole Bible even one time. Food for thought.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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But I somehow don't see God treating it that way since He's judging the heart of the person. - Something about this sentence struck a chord. I want to copy & paste several excerpts of an article I read. I chopped it up a good bit because it's 14 pages long but think I put the importance of it here.
God only looks at the heart - This alleged fact supposedly sanctifies everything that a Christian does today…….
God only looks at the heart. This certainly is a misleading statement. It has become one of the myths of modern Christianity. Many worldly Christians who want to take no responsibility for their actions, or who no longer want to be faithful to God in some particular area of their lives, find a way of escape with this popular expression.
The expression “God only looks at the heart” is often used as an excuse for not doing what is right, an excuse for not being holy before God, and an excuse for not being faithful to the Lord. If something seems out of the ordinary for Christian conduct one way to sanctify the particular action is to use the excuse that God only looks at the heart and not the outward body. There are many today who suggest that since the Bible declares God looks on the heart, what we wear and how we appear, aren’t that important; it’s what’s on the inside that counts. However, this modern conclusion of contemporary Christianity is not Biblically accurate. There are dozens of verses that verify God looks at the body, the specific actions of Christians, and expects all believers to follow His commands for holy living and conduct.
Any text out of context becomes a pretext. This has always been true. A Bible passage becomes a pretext when people take a particular Bible passage out of context and then read into the passage something that is not taught in order to support their own agenda or viewpoint.
A man once said to me he was part of a contemporary Christian rock band and that God knew his heart was sincere. I told him he was absolutely right. Only God can know the sincerity of the heart (Jer. 17:10; 1 Cor. 4:5). However, sincerity of heart does not mean an action is right in God’s eyes (Judges 17:6). If this were true a convention room filled with 25,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses would be something God accepts and condones. Sincerity does not sanctify our actions. A person may be sincere but sincerely wrong in what they believe and practice. Only truth can sanctify a person’s conduct in life (John 17:17). Truth is the measuring stick for what is right and wrong – not relativism, existentialism, pluralism, mysticism, hedonism, or any other ism that is being promoted today in the world.
The Bible says we can use our bodies to commit outward or external acts of sin that God is displeased with (“Every sin that a man doeth is without the body” - 1 Cor. 6:18). This verse tells me that God is looking at more than just the heart! The Bible teaches that we sin with our bodies when we use them for sexual sin or some other particular sin which misses the mark of God’s holiness.
This is why 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 adds:
“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
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But if we're calling some things non essential even the most learned could have it wrong. Or they were instructed by a mentor or teacher who taught them wrong. And this is why I say God looks at the heart. Not in the sense Tammy posted from the article that says people use 8th as an excuse. If it's an excuse then it's not really their hearts desire is it? And knowing the heart, God would know this about them.
I was talking in the sense of one whose heart is right, seeks truth, desires to do the things of God and teach His Word correctly but has some erroneous views based on what they were taught or of not having had revelation of the truth on a particular matter. -
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Well, let's take it from a Mormon or JW perspective. Do you think when it's time to hand in their credentials to God, He's going to give them a pass because that's what they were taught? The Bible says men are without excuse & you should not seek to be a teacher. I would like to think that if I was teaching, I would do the research for myself first instead of based on what Pastor John said. Actually, I never take a Pastor Joe's word for anything. I would research it for myself.
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Even researching won't insure you're correct on an issue. As a teacher you can get asked hard, often non essential, questions. And you may answer based on your understanding of it yet still be wrong.
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In our current techno age you can ask a question and get hundreds of perspectives to the question. The problem is that most will seek to inject their POV as fact.
I think this is where I was trying to go with talking about getting things wrong in teaching. Because you can get hundreds of perspectives. And what I was saying about those in my church who say you must tithe because they truly do believe it, and they can quote scripture to show it. This is how they were taught to view those scriptures and absent any revelation, they can read and reread those for a long time before that viewpoint might shift. Since no one can ever reach perfection this side of heaven, we always have the capacity for being wrong about points and misunderstanding things like Apollos had done even.
But then you have the ones who do as you said and try to inject their POV as fact and I think this is what causes such harm. I know in my struggle with tithing, I got the majority who really believed God cannot bless you if you don't tithe or it's disobedience or you're not trusting God...damning and harmful words to someone who wants to do what is right and yet isn't quite sure what "right" is in God's view. But there were a few, just a few mind you, who would say they believe we are supposed to tithe, no doubt in their mind about it...BUT, they also know God knows my heart and knows I don't have it and right now I have to take care of my family and maybe later I'll be blessed enough to give over and above. Those are the ones who didn't try to make their own view to be fact but acknowledged this is what they believed but that God knows me and will work it all out for me. One of those who spoke to me this way is my Sunday School teacher's wife. Probably why I have been in their class for many years. They're two of the most caring people in my church.
Christianity is a fight between God's truth and the evil of man and satan. Too many waste way too much precious time fighting to believe they even know what God wants of them to bother fighting what they should be fighting. I agree with the statement, but not being picky, but rather to make a point ... if we employ the logic you have been using regarding essentials and non-essentials how would one know what they should be fighting for instead of the other less important things they tend to fight for? There has to be a standard.
I can't stand trying to write out my point when I'm tired. Now I'm reading what I wrote and what you responded and after three reads...I'm still trying to figure out what I was meaning and what you're saying. LOL
Ok, I'll try and reword this...I think we can spend so much time fighting whether or not we're saved, because of wrong teachings, when we could get onto the fight for Christ if discipled better from the beginning. Does that make more sense? And that goes to your response and what I mentioned of tithing being essential to me at that point, and due to what I was taught, and being taught. It left me with a sense of feeling I wasn't being obedient and if we feel that way, how can we feel we can be of any use to God? That's why it becomes essential to that person. Partly because of wrong teaching, or because they're not taught what is essential and that all that other "stuff" will work out as you go and not to be concerned with it or feel God's going to punish you if you get it wrong.
And that interestingly brings up a thought in that we've talked about going to this God is love point so much that we tend to forget He's also a jealous God, or the churches that preach only fire and brimstone to scare people into repenting. Even if the sermons aren't fire and brimstone anymore, the message still can be. You can get this underlying tone from the church that if you don't do this or that just right, God isn't going to bless you. In other words, He's going to punish you, withhold good things from you, make you suffer the consequences of being wrong about things or being unable as far as you can see it to do a thing. So they're still showing God off as a mean man throwing darts at you, which undermines perfect love casts out fear because fear has to do with punishment.
Now I think I'm rambling again. If you still want that adderrall to stay awake, I stopped taking it to see if it may be causing some of my inflammation problems. So I've been very very sleepy this week. Though it's better now than it was.
If you haven’t figured it out yet about me, I am not big on trying to figure the end out. I believe that most are going to be shocked at how God (who knows exactly how He will do it) actually plays it out. A large portion of Scripture that is written outlining the end times is written in symbolism and every generation attempts to fit the symbolism into what is current in our age … and every generation to date has been wrong.
I'm not quite sure I've really read much on what you think about end times. But even from what I read in scripture, it seems even then they thought it was the end times. At least what I read in a lot of Paul's writings, he talks about the last days a few places. But I keep replacing Ninevah with U.S. Rather than seeking God to return quickly or trying to see how bad it's gotten to say it's the end, I look at how bad Ninevah had gotten to where God sent Jonah so they had yet another chance.
I have of course read the entire Left Behind series, as well as read multiple times and watched multiple times, the non-Christian view of the last days via Stephen King's The Stand. I was shown films in church as a child on the last days. I don't recall the names of them, but one stood out to me at one scene. This guy, woman and a little girl (believers) were all taken to prison to be beheaded. The little girl was given a bunch of balloons. As the guy sat in his cell he heard them beheading another outside and saw the balloons float up and it tore him up, then the little girl was brought to his cell and she was talking about the woman she'd given the balloons to. That's all I remember of it, but it can leave a lasting impression of course. And I believe you're absolutely right in that....probably every one of us has the end times scenario wrong in our own minds. We're still debating whether or not Christians are going to be here during the tribulation.
Understood, but just because it was essential to you does that really make it essential to God and thus an essential teaching?
Well hold onto your hat...
I think it's essential that we teach that it's not essential because it can essentially undermine the essentials of Christianity to one who is essentially still learning.
I asked if you wanted the adderrall.
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You make my head hurt ... hahaha.
I will attempt to respond later today after the Tylenol kicks in :-)
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Seek,
One point that should be clarified IMO is that you, personally, aren't seeking or aspiring to teach, but have been called, and, now, are being equipped, empowered, and prepared. -
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Thanks Amanda. I know. And I guess it's why I want to be sure of these things too. Because scripture does say we're held to a higher standard and quite frankly I'd be lying to say I would love to be held to a higher standard. Instead I get thoughts that I don't even have enough self control to get my weight back down or keep my mouth shut enough (food wise and literally LOL), that I'm shy and backwards in front of people, and that I stumble over my words and cannot get a point across that seems so simple to me and yet I complicate it trying to explain it....teach??? It bothers me. I know it's what I was told and I know the desire sprang up and especially my concern for what new Christians face when they have all these burning questions and a lack of real answers, that I know it's what will be put in my path somewhere down the line. But I don't want to cause anyone to stumble. There's enough to stumble over in learning that we don't need others causing stumbling blocks for us.
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