All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Unity in the church
One will argue against the head covering, citing it as outdated or a metaphor, while upholding not letting women teach because it's not the same and God commands it.
But as I was studying the difference between the terms holiness, righteousness and justification this morning, something I read just answered a lot of questions that are so often debated.
Laying aside all our notions and beliefs of all these matters, when Jesus said to obey His commands, just what commands was He speaking of?
Galatians 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
John 15:10-12
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
- You shall have no other gods before Me.
- You shall not make idols.
- You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
- Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
- Honor your father and your mother.
- You shall not murder.
- You shall not commit adultery.
- You shall not steal.
- You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
- You shall not covet.
Every message was to love God and one another, to live in peace with one another. Even Paul's teaching on head coverings and women teaching were wrapped into that central theme. As Paul said, if his eating meat offended a weaker brother, then he wouldn't eat meat. People were offended about women speaking out or showing their head, and it was causing disagreements and dissention in the church because of customs and trivial matters. The church was against one another and divided in beliefs. Kinda like Baptist, Pentecostal, Nazarene. All because of trivial matters, churches divide and write their own "beliefs" a.k.a. rules. When the only written statement should be "Love God, believe in His Son Jesus Christ, and love others." That simple.
Jesus repeatedly demonstrated love. Love takes care of every commandment. If you steal, you hurt the one you steal from. To dishonor your parents is going to hurt them, etc. The commandments were a guide on how to love God and others...how to treat one another.
The Pharisees tried to nit pick it and make up a bunch of rules like you must pay 10% even if you don't have it, you are not permitted to speak (which wasn't even what quietness meant), you must cover your head. All this clouded what Jesus was teaching.
Matthew 23:13-15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
There are 613 Jewish laws. That certainly is placing burdens on people. Just try and commit them all to memory. Some people can but the rest of the real world would be pulling their hair out.
Jesus never commanded us to keep women silent or from teaching. He never commanded us to cover our head or pay 10%. His commands were to love Him and love others. As long as we're adhering to that, truly loving others, we don't need a list of rules and regulations.
We're not going to do anything that would hurt a brother or sister. We won't covet what they have or steal it. We won't dishonor our parents. We won't lie about others or murder them. We won't step out on our spouse and tear a family apart.
But then we'd have nothing to debate and this site wouldn't exist and I wouldn't have posted this. And we'll finally have reached unity and have just one church.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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To all,
You can also copy it before deleting, then deleting the post. After that you can paste and then make adjustments to the pasted section before posting it.
Only a few people have the ability to delete things and even fewer can change things. I am confident that these glitches have been just that ... glitches.
Lord Bless.LT
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Well that's not what I had issues with. I've learned the hard way to copy before I hit send. But then I read through it again after I post it and find errors in my typing or something I needed to add to or it won't make sense.
I made these edits within 5 minutes or less. And they actually showed up as changed after it saved.
Maybe I did a David and was drowsy and just THOUGHT I'd changed them. LOL -
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Seek,
Jesus never commanded us to keep women silent or from teaching. He never commanded us to cover our head or pay 10%. His commands were to love Him and love others. As long as we're adhering to that, truly loving others, we don't need a list of rules and regulations.
If you were to attempt to go with the Jesus only teachings you would have to toss out 62 books of the Bible. Yet, the Word of God tells us that all Scripture is God breathed. The instructions found in 1 Timothy, Romans and Hebrews are no less important than what Jesus said. The key to any teaching found in Scripture is to identify who is speaking, to whom they are speaking, what prose are they using and is it an eternal or temporal teaching. Those are just a few examples of what it takes to grasp God's Word. Reading God's Word is valuable, but that is not the same as studying God's Word. Most, IMO, today read God's Word, apply their interpretation and stamp that interpretation with "the Holy Spirit revealed this to me." That may be true, but not likely because we have such confusion in the church and we know that God is not the author of confusion.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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I'm reminded of John 5
33“You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
36“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You studyc the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
41“I do not accept glory from human beings, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only Godd ?
45“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”
All scripture is God breathed. Jesus wants us to keep Him at the centre of it. If we read the bible without Jesus at the centre of we can justify horrible things just because it's in the bible.
People are pulled into legalism (obviously I know you are against legalism) if they don't keep Jesus at the centre of everything they read in the bible. There are bible studies available which may be helpful for people to see Jesus at work in the OT. I recently bought a new bible that outlines Jesus in the OT. Everything we read must be read through a Jesus filter remember why He came to earth as a human, suffered, died and rose again back to life. Everything is about Jesus, and for Jesus.
I'm not saying we go with only Jesus' teachings because that's incomplete, we need to learn from history... I am saying that every teaching and instruction and saying must be filtered through seeing where Jesus is in the teaching, and what is the principle He wants us to learn and live by.
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Yes all Scripture is God breathed, but Scripture has a habit of being widely interpreted. So we look to what Jesus taught us in His words. If those words are lacking in Scripture, we take Carla's analogy and use our Jesus glasses. Look at how He lived, how He treated others. Even when a group of men wanted to stone her, He said He does not condemn.
It is man, and of course satan, who condemns. So if one is seeing the context of Paul's words, the culture and how it led to disputes and chaos by allowing women a voice, how Jesus Himself responded, is it Christ making the accusations? He is not the accuser. God calls whom He chooses to call. We do not know everything Jesus did... that too is stated. So if one earnestly prays, studies and seeks God's truth, God will guide them to the truth. But if we condemn those who don't see the Scriptures exactly in the manner we do, when we can see they've studied, perhaps see their fruits, without knowing them enough to make such a call, then we have to ask what Jesus said. Who is the one who accuses? -
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Being widely interpreted does not mean it is being interpreted correctly. To accept it as widely interpreted as being OK is akin to saying each person may have their own interpretation. NO! There is only one true interpretation of any Scripture. We may not have it right, but there is only one right interpretation. There can be many applications, but only one true interpretation. It is incumbent upon us to diligently seek out that true interpretation, but most will settle for their own loose interpretation ... unfortunate, because, believe it or not, this leads to more disunity.
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Well would it be OK if I disagree with that too? LOL
Romans 14 is always a favorite of mine when anyone starts going off about celebrating Christmas Easter being a sin and we should read the Bible. But it's intertwined with something relevant here.
Romans 14
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
And if you drop down a little further...
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
If someone is fully persuaded by Scripture that Paul was addressing the church based on the current situation or culture, they're not wrong. What makes it a sin would be to go and do it when you still have doubts about it.
And it's right in there where Paul talks about not engaging in endless disputes. LOL. I wonder if seeking out answers and guidance in a friendly manner falls into that category. I guess only when it becomes an issue causing problems in the church. -
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Fully persuaded means nothing regarding whether something is true or not. You could be fully persuaded and in complete error. This is what Scripture warns against in Judges and elsewhere when it states that no Scripture is open to personal interpretation.
There is certain liberty, but not absolute freedom to believe what we will even if fully persuaded. The JW's are fully persuaded as are the LDS, but that does not even come close to a Romans 14 teaching, for if it is only about being persuaded there could not ever be any wolves, but just sheep of a different mind set.
There is and can only be one true interpretation to any portion of Scripture.
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Let me add that there are parameters and within those parameters we are given liberty. We do not have complete freedom. A human example. On most interstates in the US you will find the speed posted in open areas at 70 mph, and you will also find a minimum speed posted less frequently, but still applicable of 40 mph. You have the liberty of driving at any speed between 40 and 70. Do 35 and you are in violation of the law and the same is true if you do 80. In God's Word there are standards. We are to seek those out. We are given much liberty, but we do not have the freedom to go outside of the parameters God has set. In your example you can find many today who are fully persuaded that engaging in homosexual activity is OK with God ...
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Where something is black and white, they can't be fully persuaded otherwise. But like Paul says about eating meat and those who are weaker. Eating meat may still be a gray area for one while another has grown to the knowledge, from continuing in prayer and Scripture and seeking understanding, that there's nothing wrong in eating meat.
It's in such gray areas that you have several different camps and all typically with valid points. So if you study and pray and seek out the truth and are convinced in what you believe is God's heart in this, then you are acting in faith. God knows the heart. He knows if we're acting honestly out of our level of growth and understanding or if we're just blowing off a black and white answer because we don't like it.
Being stymied by endless questions of is this right or wrong can leave someone useless. They get too afraid to take a step because they can't come to a conclusion on what Scripture is saying about it because one person says this is true and another says this is.
There's many areas that could lead to indecision, especially in someone with a misplaced guilt complex. They can think that just about anything they do is sin. They can read a passage that seems to say they're not wrong then read another passage later that seems to refute what they thought the other said. It takes time to heal a guilt complex. And a guilt complex can turn a person into Martha, running to and fro trying to do everything and be superwoman, because Scripture says to go the extra mile and talks about a little rest and a little folding of the hands, or it can have you doing nothing because Scripture says wait on the Lord or you "are" healed, so that you don't know if you should accept a better job offer, move, buy a particular car, etc., or you stop taking medication because you're taught you were already healed by His stripes.
These are just some examples of how one can get tied in knots trying to adhere perfectly to Scripture and wanting to please God yet keep feeling they're all wrong and not knowing who to believe. The only way we'll know is to listen to the arguments, pray and read Scripture, and trust God will reveal the answer. And until then, be at peace with what you DO know at the moment. Otherwise the one who eats is condemned already. He condemns himself inside and cannot be at peace because he's never sure and thinks he must be wrong.
I'm sure you recall all my struggling over all these questions. Once I considered that whatever is not of faith is sin, it helped me rest a little. I still have that battle and I keep going back to this to remind myself to not beat myself up. If we were all prone to beating ourselves up, every little word spoken, every action, every inaction would torment us and we'd not be under grace but condemnation over what's already done and over. And how could we have the peace of God if we're forever thinking we're messing up? And that one always brings me back to fear has to do with punishment. And knowing this, we can know that whatever we do we need to do in faith that God is not the accuser and knows our heart and we just keep walking with Him and He will make our paths straight. It's either that or a padded 8 x 10 room with everything bolted to the floor. LOL
I hope this makes sense. To someone not raised in Scripture and having a guilt complex, it will. And I hope if they don't grasp anything else at this point, that they understand they're not sinning just because they're not sure if they're doing something right or wrong, and be at peace with God and not condemn yourself.
Anyway, this is what I mean by my comments on anything not of faith is sin. Another who has been saved longer may honestly be fully convinced and yet still not have it right. The disunity comes when people teach this is the truth rather than leading someone to the truth through studying Scripture. Because there are many teaching different interpretations of these gray areas. Perhaps intentionally, perhaps not. Perhaps right, perhaps wrong. So the hearer can only determine which teacher is right by their own study. Being gripped by fear that they're sinning and will be judged doesn't allow room to experience God's love and grace enough to be at peace and listen for His guidance while searching. When you're gripped by this kind of fear of God, it makes it so much more difficult to obey what IS black and white...in all things give thanks to God. -
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