All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Trinity
I want to know more about the existences of this trinity and some fact to proof it from the scripture. Thanks
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Hellefull, Hellefull, Hellefull you are so sold on your lie that the truth is slapping you all across your face and you trip over it and don’t see it. Your pitiful and fallacious interpretations of the word of God pose no challenge for the student of the word.
I took a minute to respond to you not because your explanation of the text poses a challenge, hahaha no, no, not at all, but because I have been waiting to be lead by God on how to approach someone as deceived as you. A feel both compassion for you and zeal to defend the truth of my Lord against such heresy. Compassion because you have been so, so deeply deceived.
Your Church, denomination or whatever you call it has to get rid of, explain away or ignore all the passages that we have shared with you, that plainly teach the deity.
I mean you are not alone in such atrocity. The Jehovah’s Witnesses had to have their own New World Translation made to support their lies. You and yours cried out, whenever we show you a verse clearly showing the deity, MISTRANSLATION, you do it so often that you practically have done the same thing as the JW, you have rewritten the Word of God in order to support you heresy. But whenever it suits you you also pull out the fact that scripture is our ultimate authority and remind us that is infallible. You contradict yourself often and you have been made to become under your own submission a master at shifting the focus of a passage.
Let me show you what I mean by what YOU have done with Isaiah 40:
You say: What will be prepared is the way and not God.
You throw out a statement like the one above, to shift the focus from the obvious meaning of the prophecy to support what you been indoctrinated to believe and then you go all over the place, never really dealing with the issue at hand.
The issue at hand is that in Isaiah we are told the Lord God is comming and in the new Testament we See the prophecy being fullfill in Christ.
Let me show you sir.
Scripture teaches us thru progressive revelation that John the Baptist was the one preparing the way for the revelation of the Lord’s glory at the arrival of Messiah. Scripture sees John the Baptist in this role (Matt.3:3; Mark1:3; Luke 3:4-6; John 1:23)
Matthew 3:2-3 (New International Version)
2and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." 3This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
"A voice of one calling in the desert,
'Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.' "
Way and paths are synonyms.
John was calling the people to repentance for the kingdom was at hand, who was He preparing the way for, the paths for? A-ha for Jesus our Lord, our God who was prophesies to come. God with us, Emmanuel.
The verses clearly state: "Prepare the way of the LORD; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.” (New King James Version)
A highway for who? For our God! Has God the Father ever walked the highways? Yes! He has walked the high ways as God the Son.
You got caught up on who is the way being referred to in the verse? Because that is what your blinded teachers taught you. Flesh and blood cannot reveal this too you Sir.
The verse is simply saying prepare the highways, the roads, the way, through repentance. John was calling the people to repent in preparation of the coming of the Lord God incarnate.
You go on a tangent about Jesus being the way, when that is not being disputed here.
Then you say: Why Isa. 40:3 shouldn’t be used to teach that Christ is God? Which else is called the way? The commandments of God (Proverbs 6:23)
Proverbs 6:23 (New International Version)
23 For these commands are a lamp,
this teaching is a light,
and the corrections of discipline
are the way to life,
Ok Sir you have digressed from the topic and how is it that Proverbs 6:23 teaches us that Isa. 40:3 should not be use to teach that Christ is God????? Huh?
What you talking about Willis???
Then you come back and say: “John the Baptist did prepare the “way of the Lord” who is Christ, for He was sent ahead of Christ.” Bingo! So the Lord and God reffered to in Isaiah 40 is appropriated to Christ.
But you just got slap by the truth and immediately digress to: “what else is the duty of John the Baptist who is sent by God?” This is not the topic at hand.
You end by saying: ”Nothing about God clothe with flesh and come down on earth.”
What???? We just established that on Isa.40 there is a prophecy teaching us that the Lord God is coming to walk on the way, on the highways.
Again it is truly sad that you have been so deeply decieved. May my Lord grant you eyes to see.
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Matthew Henry Concise Edition
Isaiah 40:1-11
All human life is a warfare; the Christian life is the most so; but the struggle will not last always. Troubles are removed in love, when sin is pardoned. In the great atonement of the death of Christ, the mercy of God is exercised to the glory of his justice. In Christ, and his sufferings, true penitents receive of the Lord's hand double for all their sins; for the satisfaction Christ made by his death was of infinite value. The prophet had some reference to the return of the Jews from Babylon. But this is a small event, compared with that pointed out by the Holy Ghost in the New Testament, when John the Baptist proclaimed the approach of Christ. When eastern princes marched through desert countries, ways were prepared for them, and hinderances removed. And may the Lord prepare our hearts by the teaching of his word and the convictions of his Spirit, that high and proud thoughts may be brought down, good desires planted, crooked and rugged tempers made straight and softened, and every hinderance removed, that we may be ready for his will on earth, and prepared for his heavenly kingdom. What are all that belongs to fallen man, or all that he does, but as the grass and the flower thereof! And what will all the titles and possessions of a dying sinner avail, when they leave him under condemnation! The word of the Lord can do that for us, which all flesh cannot. The glad tidings of the coming of Christ were to be sent forth to the ends of the earth. Satan is the strong man armed; but our Lord Jesus is stronger; and he shall proceed, and do all that he purposes. Christ is the good Shepherd; he shows tender care for young converts, weak believers, and those of a sorrowful spirit. By his word he requires no more service, and by his providence he inflicts no more trouble, than he will strengthen them for. May we know our Shepherd's voice, and follow him, proving ourselves his sheep
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Permalink Reply by Hellofull on
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Dear readers and posters:
Thank you for your prayers. Nevertheless, let us be reminded of the rules of this site.
Sometimes its hard to know what’s the best way to express one’s thoughts or ask a question. Hopefully, the guidelines below will help steer you in the right direction.
Blogs – Blogs are the place to let others know your thoughts on issues important to you, tell what’s been happening in your life, keep a daily (public) journal, or to share a devotional thought. Instead of sending group messages to your friends, write it in a blog instead. That way you’ll not be guilty of spamming and your friends will still be able to know what’s going on with you.
Forums – Forums are places to ask questions! If you are wondering about some issue and want to get a question answered or feedback from other members, creating a forum is the best way to do this. Avoid using forums to write up a devotional thought or to make a statement. Don't use forums for prayer requests: please use TheNET Prayer Room instead. The best forums always ask a question. Ask it and be prepared for some good interaction!
Groups – Groups are the place for many members to focus on a common interest, activity or broad, overarching issue. Some good examples of groups are “For Women Only”, “In the Beginning” and “Homeschooling…” Each of these groups are organized around a broad purpose and then contain a number of forums on a variety of topics pertaining to that purpose. If you want to start a group, some words of advice… Keep it fresh by updating the content regularly and by messaging group members when there is new content. Make every effort to make each member contribute regularly to the group in some way. Inactive groups, those that do not have any activity for 30 or more days, run the risk of being deleted. Please do not start a group if you merely want to post a devotional thought or ask a question. Use blogs or a forum for that.
Before you start a group, we recommend you send a message to Moomins
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(quoted from TheNET Coordinator's post, emphasis mine)
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Hellofull, Hellofull, Hellofull nowhere on the rules of this site does it state not to pray for people. This is a Christian community and we pray.
The above states: Don't use forums for prayer requests: please use The NET Prayer Room instead. Well no one here has requested prayer for you - we were simply led to pray for you.
Man I would be static that folks are praying for me, not turn around and politely and erroneously asked them not to pray for me under the guise that I am trying to uphold the rules. You quote rules that do not negate/hindered the members from praying.
You come into a Christian community group under an alias, we do not hide under an alias hellofull, we are blessed and joyful to proclaim the truth and have no need to hide. You come into the group and look for a chance to argue your point on the many forums and chat rooms. You are not here to make friends or be an edifying force- maybe you should have read or not ignored, if you read it, the STATEMENT OF FAITH:
Which starts by saying:
Although our ministry style often caters to wary skeptics, our group's foundation is based on solid, fundamental Christian doctrine. Therefore, We Believe
1.The Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God - a supernaturally integrated set of 66 books, written by 40 authors, over nearly 2,000 years.
2. God created all things - from the massive cosmos to the microscopic cell.
3. We were created in God's image, yet we were all corrupted and estranged from God after Adam fell into sin. The sin of Adam was the entry point of all sin, as well as physical and spiritual death on Earth.
4.God exists as three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
5. Jesus Christ is the Son of God who fulfilled Old Testament prophecies when he took on human flesh through the miracle of the virgin birth and came to Earth as the promised Messiah.
6. Jesus died a physical death on the cross as the ultimate love sacrifice and act of grace, which allows all who believe in Him to be cleansed of sin by His blood and have a renewed, eternal relationship with God.
7. Jesus rose from the dead as the ultimate sign of his deity. He ascended to heaven, with the ultimate promise of his return to Earth as our just and mighty Lord.
We constantly strive to be a Spirit-filled ministry, regularly praying and seeking God's guidance for our activities. We remind each other daily that this is God's work, not ours. "But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for He that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:6 KJV
We could follow your example and look for groups that believe what you believe in the Church of Christ denominations or the Oneness Pentecostal movement and sit in the cut as you do, on the chat room waiting to argue my differences of opinion or only joined those discussions were I can argue and teach my beliefs, is this a Godly attitude, is it Christ like?
That is exactly what you do – Are you blessed doing that Sir?
You think God is saying that is my boy – you go Hellofull and you teach the millions of Christians who have believe the deity how wrong they are, but hide while doing it?
Did Paul, Wycliffe, Luther hide while teaching the truth though they were well aware of the consequences of their stance? Of course not.
Why do you? Motives are important.
Having said all that - i am glad you are here, I do believe God's word does not come back void.
Be bless and a blessing
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Hi Helloful,
You certainly know how to "duck" and "Dive" when given excellent answers to your theories. You also resort to changing the subject when you lack an answer, just as you have done now by quoting the rules given by our Co-ordinator instead of answering Dave.
You are extremely fortunate at the moment to have people on AAG who have spent so much energy to assist you. Sadly you may not be so fortunate when the day arrives for you to give an answer for the hope that is within you.
Many verses of Scripture concerning Christ, reveals Him as the "Man" Christ Jesus. These verses are used by those who reject the Divinty of Christ, to prove that He was not Divine. I'm surprised that you have not used the verses that speak of Jesus asleep. After all if Jesus is God why would he need to sleep. Furthermore if Jesus is God, why would He cry out "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?
So yes! There are verses upon verses that can be taken out of context in a foolish attempt to prove that Jesus was simply a mere man.
In similar fashion when a verse is given that presents Jesus, without any doubt to be God Himself, (John 1) you choose to look the other way, rather than absorb what the verse is clearly telling us. It can be just as easy for any one of us to play around with the Greek term "Logos" thereby distracting readers from what the verses are really saying.
But, what do the verses in John's first chapter really say? First it clearly tells us that the Word was with God. This speaks of co-existence with God. Secondly we are told that the Word was God. This speaks of the Word being Divine. Thirdly we are told that the Word was made Flesh (God incarnate) and dwelt amongst us. Common logic and plain common sense, unless the Bible is speaking about someone else, the Bible clearly tells us that Jesus Christ (the Word) is God. We are also told that God and the Word that was made flesh were together right at the beginning and everything that was made was made by Him (the Word). On my shelf are 23 Bibles and apart from the New World Translation (J.W.) no matter which version I read all agree with each other.
Therfore to introduce the argument that Jesus is a mere man and not God, one WILL FIRST before anything else, have to remove (Strike out) the first chapter of John.
There is no need for me to persue this argument with you, simply because John chapter 1 states very clearly (if Jesus is referred to here as "The Word") that Jesus is without any further argument, GOD IN THE FLESH.
Failing which John's Gospel would be considered erroneous. This of course is ridiculous and should we, despite John's testimony, still insist that Jesus is not God, then people who believe this will be given enough opportunity to reconsider that doctrine with tremendous heat under their butocks to stir them on.
One last word..... Please stop using verses that describe the manhood of Jesus to prove that He was not God. We are fully aware of these verses simply because Jesus was a man, took the place of man in order to pay the penalty that man deserved. Who but God could pay for the sins of the world, but to do it He had to be in the form of man, representing mankind. Stop restricting God in a box of your own making. Should God wish to impregnate a Virgin, or become a man, what is the problem? He is after all, God.
Ron.
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Thank you Paula,
What those who deny the Divinity of Jesus don't realise is: "That if Jesus was a mere man, then He had the curse of Sin on Him that was on every man on earth. How on earth then, could a mere sinful man pay for the sins of the world? But Jesus was not a mere man, the Bible tells that Christ was sinless in 2Co 5:21: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin".
The O.T. Sacrificial lamb had to be "without blemish" and "without Spot"
1Pet 1:19 tells us that Christ represented that Lamb.
It was as if God had placed His spotless Lamb on the Cross for the entire Universe (Angels, mankind, Satan and Demons) to examine and realise that first and foremost Jesus had become the Representative of what man should have been and "Was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." and being without sin He qualified as God's sacrificial lamb, who was to remove us from all sin. Secondly, if God had taken a mere man (For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God) the the sacrificial lamb (the mere man Jesus) would have been rejected. There was only "one" in the entire universe who could fulfill that role and that is why "The Word" who is God, "was made flesh" to enable Him to take the place of man and pay the penalty in the place of man. There is not another man, woman or child who could have been used as God's spotless lamb. Finally, and once again....... "If Jesus was a mere man, He would never have become the Spotless lamb and "YES", He would have died and paid the price. BUT ONLY FOR HIS OWN SINS. and being a sinner like all men, He would have come under God's judgment and sent to Hell. But Jesus was NOT a mere man, He was and still is: The Saviour of all those who believe. 'ho Logos' The Word.
Excuse me for a moment while I jump up and down in my chair praising God for His Mercy and Love in that He came down to this earth "and took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted." Heb 2:16 - 18 PRAISE GOD AND THANK YOU JESUS - THANKYOU!
Ron.
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Tom,
The article you have placed above can easily be debunked. It is full of errors (basura/trash), but before I do that, let me asked you some questions.
Is that what you believe to be true? I have noticed that the only time your posts include scriptures is when you share someone else’s erroneous interpretation of the bible.
Again, is that what you believe? Is it not you, the one that is always saying read your bibles etc...? WHY DON'T YOU FOLLOW YOUR OWN ADVICE TOM? YOU DO NOT ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS OF PROVIDING BIBLICAL VERSES TO BACK UP YOUR VIEW, EXECPT WHEN YOU INCLUDE AN ARTICLE FULL OF FALSE TEACHING.
You need to follow your own advice and READ THE BIBLE and STOP LISTENING TO FALSE TEACHERS. You cannot back up this doctrines yourself, in your own words, can you son? You have not done it yet.
Others and myself have asked you over and over to do it and you fail to do it yet.
ARE YOU GOING TO RESPOND TO THIS INQUIRY HERE?
IS THIS WHAT YOU BELIEVE TOM?
CAN YOU BACK IT UP WITH SCRIPTURE IN YOUR OWN WORDS, TELLING US THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDED YOU TO SUCH TRUTH? OR CAN YOU ONLY QUOTE FALSE TEACHERS? ACCORDING TO THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF THE ARTICLE ABOVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT GOD THEN RIGHT?
IS THAT WHAT YOU BELEIVE?
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO COMES DOWN ON PEOPLE FOR NOT READING THE BIBLE AND THEN POST ARTICLES THAT GIVE CLEAR EVIDANCE THAT IF ANYONE IS NOT READING THE BIBLE, IS YOU SIR. YOUARE BEING BRAIN WASHED BY FALSE DOCTRINES.
WHAT VERSION OF THE BIBLE ARE YOU READING?
A MIXURE OF ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY PERHAPS?
OHHHH and you can stop apologizing at the beginning of your post and be courteous instead.
I still am not mad at you. :)
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Tom,
Your mind is messed up...........
I strongly suggest that you first do as the new Christians in the book of Acts did:
"Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver." Acts 19:19
The above verse offers three things:
1. Get's rid of all the rubbish in your life
2. Saves you a lot of money.
3. Having done the above it then gives you an
opportunity to read the Word of God.
Instead of all the rubbish your reading you will find that
The word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb 4:12
Finally, unlike all the other trash your reading, it is the Bible and the Bible alone, that is able to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. Acts 20:32.
The choice is your's Tom; failing which, should you choose to continue with the trash, keep it to yourself and rather sit back quietly and absorb all the Scriptural truths found in the Bible, hopefully given here on AAG. Then soon you will be able to distinguished truth from error.
Controversy old son, does not come from God, but rather from the pit of Hell.
Ron
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Ajala,
I would ask this question of you. What DO you believe that is written in the Bible?
The entire chapter of John refers to the Son and the Father. Which of these are God to you?
Much of Paul's Epistle teach of the Holy Spirit. What part does He play in God's kingdom?
Surely, if you have studied the Bible, you have an opinion on the parts that these two of the three members of the Trinity play. Perhaps if you could explain this to us or to me, I would be better able to answer your comments on the Trinity.
Rita
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Your statement: "No where does it say that the Holy Spirit will be ever present. If, as you guys believe, the Holy Spirit is in-dwelling once you become a born again Christian then why is Christianity so messed up?"
Shows how little you understand. Christianity is not messed up. Not at all.
When true Christians, born of the Spirit of God Who has taken residence within them, differ in their beliefs, they may do so. God does not remove a man or woman's personality and turn them into Robots.
Neither does He condemn them to Hell because they differ on the doctrines of Baptism, Speaking in tongues, etc; In fact these differences in belief are what keeps church discussions and the Bible alive.
Imagine if it was all simply "cut and dried".
BUT there are certain doctrines (some of which you hold to scorn) that only a true
Christian "INDWELT" by the Holy Spirit can come to a full understanding and believe. IT IS THESE IMPORTANT DOCTRINES ALL CHRISTIANS AGREE WITH EACH OTHER. Hence the proof of the Indwelling Spirit.
The proof being that the Indwelling Holy Spirit brings millions to agree on those important doctrines, failing which He would have failed in His mission to the Church. Therefore the TRUE Church remains United. Once a man or woman is born again, then getting ALL Doctrines into the right perspective is what the Holy Spirit does. Speaking in tongues or failing to get baptised concerns your walk with Christ and your joy as a Christian and depends on your willingness to listen and learn, your willingness to ether walk away or towards them but never affects your salvation.
What does affect your Salvation is Heresy and not simply misunderstanding the less important Church doctrines, that do not lead to salvation or death.
Compare this then with the thousands of differing beliefs of the Unbelieving world and those who would strangle the Word to make it say something it does not. They are NEVER United on any one thing.
Bible Heretics like you are FEW in numbers and I would not boast about it. They are similar to the ones who started out with me in a Christian walk who sadly chose your route and today I no longer see or hear from them. Untruths bind a man into eventual disbelief whereas truth releases a man to continue in freedom.
That there are doctrines that we heard about and accepted is so very true, BUT those doctrines that do not pertain to the salvation of our souls, the Holy Spirit continues His persuasions towards us, to set them aside and look only unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:2
It is only in the lives of those who DO NOT have the Indwelling Holy Spirit, who when opening some book that denies the truths found in Scripture, find that it is easy and understandable to accept these theories simply because they lack the persuasiveness of the Holy Spirit. I honestly believe you to be one of those, who find it easy to accept the garbage you read and be encouraged in "Name Calling" Christians. This is a typical reaction against Christians and even my Lord experienced it.
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The people in this forum have been striving for a time to show you the right way and you will have none of it. You make arguments where there is no argument. You are actually not interested in learning because for 2 and a half months this conversation has gone on and I don't see where you have obtained any knowledge. Worst than that, I can't see where you are even trying to learn. You have good Christain men trying to share what they know and understand about the Trinity and you are, instead of absorbing what is truth, trying to defeat it.
If you are trying to disprove the Bible, first you have to know what it says. I don't care how many versions you quote from, if you CANT spiritually discern what it says it's because you don't have the God-given ability to do so. Spiritual discernment is obtained by one who is spiritual and that is God's gift. I don't think an unsaved person can obtain that.
A person is saved through the belief in Christ as Lord and Savior. If you can't believe that Jesus is God, you can't be saved. Even demons believe in Him and they shudder. The Spirit is necessary in obtaining the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. If you can't believe that, you can't be drawn to Christ and you can't be saved.
I can't make you understand who the Trinity is and how They work, but I can tell you what will happen if you don't start trying to believe in what God says in His Word.
Jesus asked the crippled man at the the pool in Bethsaida if he wanted to be healed. So my next question to you is, do you want to be saved?
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Well said Rita....
Something else.... He never replies to the tough questions.
Some time ago I wrote that if Jesus is not God then he died on the cross for His own sins and not for the sins of all Mankind.
I'm still waiting for a twisted answer. JW's who specialise in this sort of question.... Also failed to answer.
Ron
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