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Trinity
I want to know more about the existences of this trinity and some fact to proof it from the scripture. Thanks
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Helloful, you have several problems and have demonstrated that you are lost and wanderingwith this answer:
1. You have digressed away from the point of the question (the doctrine of the Trinity) and have rambled into details of the incarnation.
2. You have given information without revelation. You have provided data without truth. You have created your own logical fallacy and don't even realize that you have made the point that Jesus is the topic of Isaiah 9:5-7.
3. You are in disagreement with the teaching of the Apostles and of Christ himself.
To quote you:
“in the verse, it says "And His name will be called..." it did not say "And His names will be called." Clearly therefore that ‘Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace’ is a long single name.”
You then go on to demonstrate that this verse MUST be about God in explaining that this is a single name, about a single specific person. That name not only refers to him as “El Gibbor” (Mighty God) but also as “Abi ad sar shalom” (Everlasting Father Prince of Peace).
Quoting you again, in your point that you stated: “Thus the phrase ‘Mighty God’ is a part of the name and not one of the names. "Mighty God" therefore refers to the Wonderful Counselor who is also the Everlasting Father.” And then you go on to show that Isaiah 28:29 demonstrates that the “wonderful counselor” is synonymous with the “LORD Almighty”.
Therefore you have created the evidence against your own argument.
Isaiah 9:5-7 says:
“For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.”
So, the one about whom this scripture speaks, the one who has received a name with the 8 parts, is the same one who has a government with no end, is the “son of David” who rules an eternal kingdom which is filled justice and righteousness.
How many more ways could you define this person with the attributes of God? How many more ways could it be possible to demonstrate that Isaiah is referring to the “son of David” who is also the “Son of God” and indeed “God incarnate”? Isaiah creates a compound name to show that very thing, which you point out is not multiple names, but a single name.
Your own argument mitigates against your belief.
I challenge you to take fresh review of scripture; listen to Jesus and listen to his Apostles. This is the one about whom all of scripture speaks, and indeed he is the Word of God that is God (John chapter 1).
To look at the whole counsel of scripture any other way is to make an idol in your own image, and you are guilty of missing the Gospel to hold on to your idol.
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Permalink Reply by Hellofull on
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You said this:
"So, the one about whom this scripture speaks, the one who has received a name with the 8 parts, is the same one who has a government with no end, is the “son of David” who rules an eternal kingdom which is filled justice and righteousness."
I couldn't agree more. And that's what I am trying to explain. But, does the name Pele-joez-el-gibbor-abi-ad-sar-shalom which is the prophetic name of Christ, prove His divinity? If it does then, as I have said earlier many would qualify to be God.
You are guilty of accusing me of something I have not done and said. Please read my post thoroughly.
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Permalink Reply by Theresa on
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Dear Hellofull,
There is a Person living inside of every Christ follower, the Person of the Holy Spirit, He is the spirit of truth, He guides, He comforts and He helps us in our prayers, no one is closer to a believer than the person of the Holy Spirit, because He is right there in the heart. The night I called on Jesus to save me, asked Him to come into my life and forgive me of all I have done, asked Him to take control of my life, told Him I surrendered and I want to be in heaven with Him when my time comes. I know that I know that something happened after that, the evidence were there because my appearence, my speech, my way of doing things all changed.
I would like to ask you Hellofull, are you at peace? Do you have joy even in your darkest hours? Do you love others? Do you love Jesus? Do you love yourself?
Jesus took your place on the cross, He died in your place. Do you believe that? Did you talk to Jesus about that? Did you thank Him for doing that?
If you did ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, if you asked Jesus to forgive you of all your sins, even the sin of Adam and Eve disobedience to God from the beginning, if you did that, then, why is the argument, why the worry, who is right and who is wrong? Why does it matter?
The Holy Spirit has showed me without any doubts that Jesus is God and one of His names is Everlasting Father, another name is Almighty God, this is what I read from the scriptures, nothing else. I believe it just the way it is written. It is finished. Zip, nothing added. Why the confusion? Why stirring confusion? You love God, you love Jesus, Jesus is God. Jesus did not want to leave us orphanages, He left us the Holy Spirit and He is all ours when we ask Him to, so what is the problem?
James 4:1 What is causing the quarrels and fights among you? Don't they come from the evil desires at war within you?
One thing about children, they are very trusting. You can tell them anything and they will believe you. It is your turn to imitate a child and put your trust in what Jesus did for you on the cross.
I am thinking of your name right now, I have never heard of it before, is it French or German? Is this your real name and if it is not, why did you pick it?
In Christ, Theresa,
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Theresa these are you questions to me:
"I would like to ask you Hellofull, are you at peace? Do you have joy even in your darkest hours? Do you love others? Do you love Jesus? Do you love yourself?"
Am I at peace? Yes.
Do I have joy in my darkest hours? God brought me from darkness to the light.
Do I love others? Yes and that includes you Theresa
Do you love Jesus? More than I love myself
Do I love myself? Yes.
I believe these are so out of the topic. Sorry for straying.
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Hellofull, please know I love you too and I am thanking God for you right now. Please listen to this worship song, and tell me who do you think of when you sing it and who are you singing it to?
When I am singing this worship song, Jesus is on my mind. He is the One I am singing it too. MY GOD has a name and HIS name is JESUS. You and I and any true follower of Christ can not seperate the two.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Helloful
Hahaha good to be here friend. You certainly got your doctrine down pack. In very few occassion I express what I am about to express now, because like you friend I loooovvvvveeeee to discuss doctrinal issues and though I can come back and debunk your statements up above and then you can rebottle mines, I am not being led by the Spirit to do that with you.
I am being led to tell you the following:
God loves you crazy. He send His only begotten to save you and if you pick up the word and leave all manmade interpretations aside and asked Him to reveal this matter to you -HE WILL!
I study with the Jehovah's Witnesses for three years when I was seeking knowledge (they never preached the gospel to me and I was never a JW my self - I just liked to study with them) in three areas of life: The Spiritual, the academic and street knowledge, I wanted to attain both the positive and the negative data I could acquire on those three areas, any ways I study with them and they drilled on my head that Jesus is just a man.
A few years later I ended up with 4 years in a state penitentiary for diving into the negative part of Street knowledge hahaha
No man preach the Gospel to me -in solitary confinement - God one night stepped into my cell and brought into my life a convictions that dropped me to my knees sobbing as I asked for forgiveness for all my iniquities and was regenerated.
I got a bible as soon as I could and told the Lord - TEACH ME - I HAVE BEEN TOLD JESUS IS NOT GOD, I HEARD THIS AND THAT, BUT I WANT YOU TO TEACH ME. IT WAS HIS SPIRIT GUIDING MY PRAYERS AND SO I STARTED TO READ AND HE STARTED TO TEACH ME AS HE HAS PROMISE TO DO.
I saw Jesus’ splendor as being God and the Holy Spirit being God as well and I was confronted with the fact that I had this other belief, would I let go what I researched and been taught by man or would I listen to God?
Obviously I Listened to God - I hope you do to as you dive into scripture asking Him to reveal this truth to you.
With much love and respect your brother in Christ
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Permalink Reply by GAD_578 on
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I encourage individual study. The context of a language does not change as a result of traditions of men that seek to do so, neither does truth.I Am (Exodus 3:14) = hayah-(be or become)/ Hayah is also a root of Yehovah/ which by some is pronouned Yehovih (for the reason to resist repetition within the name) which does change context based off tradtions of men! (and there is no need in it other than observing traditions of men, because of the context of the scripture)! One way I can mention God is to say -/He of whoms will shall be done/ That is to say God but is not a proper name./Ehyeh is translated "I will be" many times in the o.T. and again it is proper Hebrew. Example Zec. 8:8/ Ex.3:12/Ex.15:2- 2The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.*Ephesians 3:9/Elohim -plural in literal sense
Exodus 7:1 1And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (ELOHIM) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (here Elohim is used for judge speaking to One but with mention of a plural!
Note: here another use of the term is used (Judge is the context here). Thee is to address Moses but notice the mention of Aaron and these two as an instrument of God (again plural and singular) The judgement of God through instruments./ Eph.4:4/1Cor.12"13/Is.9:6/Jn16:28
www.FriendsNChrist.ning.com Deut. 6:4 = 1 Jn.5:7 /Plural and singular- ONE ALMIGHTY - Three offices that show different offices and relations for a Very Important reason!
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Hellofull,
What Bible Translation do you prefer most and consider the most accurate?
LT
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To David,
All those are quotations from the Bible, I have simply emphasized in some points yet you call it manmade interpretations. If that's what you think, I can do nothing about it. I am just following what Apostle Paul taught the Christians:
"Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other." (I Corinthians 4:6 New King James Version, emphasis mine).
One of the reason someone gets puffed up on behalf of one against the other is thinking beyond what is written.
If you guys just stick to what is written, and stop putting your own interpretations of the Bible and claim that it is from the Holy Spirit we would be in disagreement right now.
"knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation," (II Peter 1:20, NKJV)
How can we understand it then? The Scripture itself will explain. Apostle Paul teaches us how:
"These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (I Corinthians 2:13 NKJV)
The words they speak, the words that were written in the Bible are not "in words which man's wisdom teaches" That is why to understand what verse in the Bible tell us we must compare it with other verses in the Bible. All the verses are words taught by the Holy Spirit to the ones who were commanded by God to write it. "Comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
To LT.
By your question, I assume that you know very much of what is the situation of Bible translations today. The most accurate translation would be the translation without any mistranslated verse and away from any influence of the translators beliefs. Where can we find such? To be honest with you LT, I don't know.
But that doesn't mean we have no way of knowing the pure words of God.
Hellofull.
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I simply want to know which version you prefer to read and study from. Nothing more, nothing less.
LT
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I don't prefer to answer a top 10 list of my most preferred versions LT. I think even you will find it hard to rank those versions. Those translations are a product of not just hard work.
I want to read and study all the version as much as possible. Maybe if your question was, "What is the best collection a man should have?" that would be a lot more easier. Answer is... "Collect all versions of the Bible."
Hellofull
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It was a simple question. Do you read a different version every night? Do you have ten Bibles that you pick one for tonight and one for tomorrow. Most people who study the Word will compare version etc, but usually use one, maybe two as their primary reading Bible versions. If you wish not to answer the question, that is OK.
LT
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