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Trinity
I want to know more about the existences of this trinity and some fact to proof it from the scripture. Thanks
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Ajala,
I found this for you at www.gotquestions.org. This will give you lots of information to study and look up the scriptures for yourself.. Enjoy! God be with you for understanding.
Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.
The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:
1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).
2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.
In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.
3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.
4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).
Recommended Resource: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.
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Permalink Reply by Hellofull on
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The real and simple answer to the question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?" is NOTHING.
The Bible thus not teach anything about the trinity.
The Bible teaches that the Father is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Never did the Bible teach that Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
Let us quote the verses that allegedly teach about the trinity in the New King James Version.
These verses only prove that there is only one God:
Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!
I Corinthians 8:4
Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.
Galatians 3:20
Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
I Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
The last one even made it certain that Jesus is a man.
Now let us examine these other verses:
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
It is true that in Hebrew, the term God in this verse is Elohim. And yes, it is a plural noun. But God's plural references to Himself indicated not a plural of quantity, but a plural of majesty.
And even if we consider such way of thinking that it is a plural of quantity ... why limit it to two? It could be three or four or five.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
I agree that the pronoun "us" is plural. Please notice that neither the verse mention that the pronoun "us" here is limited to two nor it refers to the Christ and the Holy Spirit.
And if we continue reading verse "27" it is even clearer that God alone made us.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
It did not say that, "So God created man in their own image; in the image of God they created him;...
Genesis 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"ù
To whom thus the pronoun "us" refers to? Why not continue reading up to verse "24"?
Genesis 3:24
So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
That should be enough for now.
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Dear Helloful.....you have said this......
Never did the Bible teach that Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
You are right when you say that there is one God...here are scriptures to indicate that:
There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).
However...God consists of three persons.... (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.
and..... Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
(taken from www.gotquestions.org)
There is much more on this topic....our finite minds cannot fully grasp the concept of the Trinity....but Scripture indicates it is so.
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Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14
We must not add our own interpretations to these verses.
Yes, Elohim is plural but not in number but majesty. Plural of majesty.
What will be the erroneous ramification if we are to accept that Elohim, in the verses cited refers to plural of quantity?
It will contradict the essential truth about God. "there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came" (I Cor.8-6, New International Version). The Almighty Father Himself said, "I alone am God and that there is no one else like me" (Isa. 46:9, Today's English Version)
John 1:1, 14 does not prove the divinity of Christ.
John 1:1, 14 New King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Notice:
1. The name Christ is not even mentioned in the verse.
2. "In the beginning was the Word,"
does not mean Christ existed prior to his birth by Mary. This what Apostle Paul teaches us:
"Foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, he has been manifested in the last times for your sakes." (I Pet. 1:20, Confraternity Version)
Even before the foundation of the world, God had already foreknown or planned to send Christ. But God's plan to send Him had found fulfillment only when He (Christ) was conceived and born of a woman named Mary through the Holy Spirit (Gal. 4:4; Mat. 1:18, 20)
3. "and the Word was with God,"
If we are to accept that the "word" is Christ with existence and is God in state of being... how many God's will there be?
4. "and the Word was God."
If we are to consult the Greek Scriptures, the term God is theos, without its article "ho" it is simply an adjective and not a nound. If we look up this verse in Greek. The term theos which was translated as God in english has no article "ho".
Thus, it simply means that the word was "divine" (Revised Standard Version). The term "god" was used as an adjective to describe the "word" of God. The word of God is powerful (Luke 1:37) just like God is Almighty (Gen. 17:1).
5. "And the word became flesh"
Of course, the plan of God regarding Christ was fulfilled, and the fulfillment is a man or flesh (Gal. 4:4; Mat. 1:18, 20). It doesn't mean that God became Flesh. For God is not man (Ose. 11:9)
That would be enough for now.
It's not an interpretation from any sites... it is simply quoted from the Bible.
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Do not fear my friend... for I have written the Biblical basis of what I have said... it's the same scriptures that you believe in.
I do not disagree with what is written in Revelations 19:13
You said that the gospel which I received is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures. Does that mean, you disagree that the "word" or "logos" in Greek means "plan" or "purpose"?
Isaiah 46:11
"Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it."
There must be no contradictions in the Scriptures.
If we are to accept that names and titles of a person indicates their state of being, there will be several erroneous ramifications:
Christ having a name "Word of God" does not mean that He is God.
Biblical names of a person such as Eliphelet [God of deliverance] and Elihu (whose God is he [Jehovah]) does not indicate that they are God.
The doctrine that Christ is man, is BIBLICAL. Our Lord Jesus Christ himself teaches it. (John 8:40).
What is unbiblical is the doctrine about Christ's divinity. It only became an article of faith in the Catholic Church on 325 AD at the Council of Trent. If such doctrine is written in the Bible, there is no need to formulate such doctrine by a council.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Helloful,
You are in error. The belief that Jesus is God did not originate in the council meeting in 325 AD. History. Early church leaders and the Bible all clearly reveal this. The meeting did not establish new ideas, but affirmed what the church was already teaching and had been teaching.
* The Scripture reveal that Jesus is God.
* Early church leaders taught Jesus is God.
- From the first century we have, beyond the Word of God:
Ignatius
- From the second century we have quotations from Polycarp, Clement, Irrenaeus, Justin Martyr and Athenagoras to name a few.
The issue of what you believe about Jesus is critical to one's salvation.
LT
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Paula,
I am not sure why you ask me what I believe in when my comment/response was to Helloful and not you. Please clarify your question and the reason for asking it and then I will be glad to respond if warranted.
Lord Bless,
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Ignatius was the first to teach the Divinity of Christ. You can try check your own history books with that. But not the Apostles nor Christ himself.
The topic regarding the Divinity of Christ was a great controversy that time. That is why they have to meet in a council to formulate an article of faith, giving them reasons to accuse those who don't believe that Christ is God as heretics.
To be more precise with what happened in the Council:
The one who presided the council was Constantine I... yeah right... a PAGAN. He is not even a bishop, but simply a christian convert.
And even after the Council of Trent in 325 AD, disputes went on... leading to questions of the Holy Spirit. Again they were forced to formulate another article of faith in 381 A.D at the Council of Constantinople regarding the divinity of the Holy Spirit.
Why is there a need to go all those troublesome councils? Because the Holy Scriptures never thought that Christ is God. It was the false teachers prophesied by the Apostles that started it all.
"Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves." (Acts 20:30 New King James Version)
"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not acceptedùyou may well put up with it!" (II Corinthians 11:3-4 New King James Version)
They preach another Jesus, not preached by the Apostles.
What did the Apostles preach about Jesus?
Apostle Paul teaches that "He is truly human" (I Tim 2:5, Contemporary English Version)
Apostle Peter teaches that Chirst is a "man attested by God" (Acts 2:22 New King James Version)
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Dear Helloful,
It seems by your responses that you have more faith in research that you have done (separate from Scripture) other than God's Word, which would indicate that you are trusting your own knowledge for your Salvation rather than God's Work thru Christ Jesus. So, it would also seem that you are trusting the opinions of men rather then what God has shown us in and through His Word.
Do you believe that Scripture is Inspired by God? -
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At the 325 council you assume the distorted came together and overthrew the correct teachers, when in fact it was the church leaders who held to the teachings of the gospels and apostles who came together to affirm the teachings of the gospels and apostles. They created creeds to refute the heresy, one of which was that Jesus was not God. Constantine presided over does not mean he decided. The council discussed many things and were in agreement aboutthe truths of God and upheld those truths (doctrine).
You wish to alter history and to change the meaning of the Word of God to suit your preference. You have the right to believe what you wish, but that right does not mean you are right.
REV 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
REV 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Helloful,
Your words: "Ignatius was the first to teach the Divinity of Christ. You can try check your own history books with that".
Would you kindly give me the reference of the historical book/s that publish the statement you made about Ignatius above?
While doing this would you kindly explain to me, who in any of these discussions quoted Constantine as a reference to the deity of Jesus or the Holy Spirit. From what I have read in these discussion, all quotations were take from the Old and New Testaments.
Again the following are your words: Apostle Paul teaches that "He is truly human" (I Tim 2:5, Contemporary English Version)
Apostle Peter teaches that Chirst is a "man attested by God" (Acts 2:22 New King James Version)
I take it that you are trying to make it appear that Jesus was simply a human, a mere man and not God and the Scriptures you quote do confirm that......... But again you quote from a small portion that tells us one part of the entire truth regarding who Christ really is. Why not include the rest of Scripture?
Will you therefore kindly and in defence of what you believe "explain away" the following verses taken from the Old and New Testaments
that speak of the trinity and the deity of Christ.
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning from the time that it was, there am I and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 ALL things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us
We wait with bated breath.
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"Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works." (John 14:8-10, New King James Version, emphasis ours)
Let us try to examine this verse. Does John 14:8-10 teaches that Christ is God?
Nowhere in the verse that we can read that Jesus said to Philip that "He is God". What we can read is, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father."
Our Lord Jesus Christ did not say "I am the Father". What He said is, "I am in the Father, and the Father in Me".
If we follow the way of thinking that Christ is God because He is in the Father and the Father in Him, then those who follow the commandments would also qualify to be God, because they to are in the Father and the Son, and the Father and the Son in them.
"And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." (I John 3:24, King James Version, emphasis ours)
"As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (I John 2:24, New American Standard Bible)
Then why did Christ say that "He who has seen Me has seen the Father"?
We know that God--the Father cannot be seen, thus:
"Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. (I Timoteo 1:17 King James Version, emphasis ours)
How can we prove then, that God do exist? This what Apostle Paul teaches:
"Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest `it' to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead -- to their being inexcusable;" (Romans 1:19-20 Young's Literal Translation)
God can be seen through his works he made because He is Almighty. His power is manifested in the works he made.
How then is God seen or manifested in Christ? That is what Christ clarified to Philip, thus:
"...The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works."
Christ himself admitted that He can do nothing.
"I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me." (John 5:30 New King James Version)
This further proves that He is not God, because the true God is Almighty (Gen. 17:1)
What all the more proves that it was God's works that was manifested in Christ? This is what Apostle Peter teaches us:
"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;" (Acts 2:22-23 New King James Version)
Thus, John 14:8-10, does not teach anything about the divinity of Christ. Instead of giving meaning to the verse, let the Bible explains itself, thus:
"These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (I Corinthians 2:13, New King James Version, emphasis ours)
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