There is Diversity in the Body of Christ

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 5, 2012 at 7:45am

Hi Sam,

 

There are so many demoniations all over the world...  many of whom have people who belong to the body of Christ within those denominations   'The Church'.  There isn't one denomination that is superior to another...  That is why we here on AAG remain nondenominational.  (of coarse I am not including certain cults such as Mormons or JW).

 

One word of caution...  Certain denominations will give rules...an outline to follow so that they will clearly stay within the boundaries of not breaking God's Laws.  This could be dangerously close to becoming a pharisee.  The New Birth that Christ gives us...brings a new heart made of flesh..with new desires. 

We needed the law to show us our sin and our need for a Saviour.  The purpose of the law is to point us to our need for a Saviour....when we realize that need and 'repent and believe'...it is then we are 'born again'.  When this happens, we will grow into living a godly life devoted in surrender to the Lord.

The puritan ethics are fine...I found this online:

I do have some questions about some of it below... but overall--it't not bad.  But I think if you were to read the ethics of any Christian denomination...none of them would be bad.

 

What are the Puritan Ethics?

 

Unvarying faith in their purpose- adversity was simply a way for God to challenge the elect.

Work ethic- hard work was glorified as it was required for survival of society.


Education- everyone needed to be literate enough to read the Bible.


Moderation- excess of any kind was considered self-centered rather than focused on God. Plainness and temperance.


Being one's brother's keeper- keep other in line


Introspection- constantly searching for traces of sin in oneself.

.....

This is a good way to live..  as long as it doesn't become just a list of rules to cling to.  :-)

 

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on March 5, 2012 at 3:38pm

Carla,

What you posted under Puritan Ethics are good rules to follow. Especially the last three that came from God. Good work ethics also. Education is a good thing and being able to read and understand the Bible is good. I didn't follow the unvarying faith. Is that the same as unwavering faith? We all have adversity in our lives. Does God challenge us with it? I am not so sure God wants us to have adversity in our lives but we all have it at some point. Rather than God challenging us with it, I think the challenge comes from Satan.

Personally, I think that this list of rules are good ones to cling to as long as one knows they are related to how God wants us to live our lives.

Rita

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Permalink Reply by Carla on March 5, 2012 at 3:41pm

Rita,

 

I had the same inquiry about the unvarying faith... 

 

Rules are fine...as long as we don't become pharisaic about it.

The point of scripture is to lead us to Jesus..not to more rules. :-)

 

Blessings, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Carla on March 5, 2012 at 3:51pm

I wonder if they meant to type 'unwavering faith' rather than 'unvarying faith'.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 5, 2012 at 4:37pm

They meant unvarying faith. Have you ever read the Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne? Unvarying simply means unchanging. According to puritan ethics, they were to survive adversity without losing faith or hope. They (Puritans) trusted in God even though they thought God was challenging them because they were the elect. They believed in predestination and that one cannot choose salvation. God chooses you. They believed in irresistable grace.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on March 5, 2012 at 4:54pm

okay.  Thanks Amanda.

It's good to have the clarification.   I thought maybe that was it but wasn't sure.

I suppose that's also part of the diversity we're talking about here.  :-)

We can't say they are not true believers (i know you're not saying that)...

....just to make a demonstration of our point of the diversity in the body of Christ.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 5, 2012 at 5:20pm

I would say IMO that they would be an example of not accepting diversity in the Body of Christ. They had legalistic tendencies. So you are right in saying rules are fine as long as we do not focus on ourselves and our sin. We can acknowledge grace and yet teach people that they must still achieve salvation by following all of those ethics which in doing so would then be evidence that you are indeed one of the elect. To be pure. To never be able to admit that you do sin for fear of being shunned or condemned. Anyone who wants to live by rules I will not say they are not true believers. But grace does not end at the moment of the new birth. I am very wary of legalism, knowing it is something we can so easily be drawn into. We know that the Pharisees in the Gospels alienated a lot of people from themselves. Legalism has a way of doing that.

As far as Calvinism and Arminianism and non-essential doctrines, what LT said is right.

http://www.usahistory.info/NewEngland/Puritans.html

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Permalink Reply by Carla on March 5, 2012 at 5:29pm

Hey Amanda,

 

We definately reject legalistic tendencies.  Scriptures point to Christ.  I am reminded of John 5;39,40.

anyway..  back to topic. ;-)

 

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 5, 2012 at 6:15pm

:)

Diversity generally causes conflict. Is this on topic?

Question: "What does the Bible say about conflict resolution?"

Answer: Conflict resolution in the body of Christ is crucial for several reasons. Avoidance of conflict, with no effort to resolve it, postpones a proper response and exacerbates the problem because conflicts that are allowed to fester unaddressed will always increase and have negative effects on relationships within the body. The goal of conflict resolution is unity, and unity in the church poses a threat to the devil who will use every opportunity to take advantage of unresolved issues, especially those involving anger, bitterness, self-pity and envy. These emotions are the basis for most church conflicts. Scripture tells us that we’re to “let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from [us], along with all malice” (Ephesians 4:31). Failure to do this results in division in the body of Christ and grief to the Holy Spirit. We’re also told that we’re not to allow a “root of bitterness” to spring up among us, leading to trouble and defilement (Hebrews 12:15). Clearly, a biblical method of conflict resolution is needed.

Although the verses cited in the first paragraph are the two places that expressly deal with conflict resolution, every letter in the New Testament contains at least one command to believers to live at peace with one another. We are repeatedly instructed to love one another (John 13:34; Romans 12:10), to live in peace and harmony with one another (Romans 15:5; Hebrews 12:14), to settle our differences among ourselves (2 Corinthians 13:11), to be patient, kind and tenderhearted toward one another (1 Corinthians 13:4), to consider others before ourselves (Philippians 2:3), to bear one another’s burdens (Ephesians 4:2), and to rejoice in the truth (1 Corinthians 13:6). Conflict is the antithesis of Christian behavior as outlined in Scripture.

There are times when, despite all efforts to reconcile, sin issues prevent us from resolving conflict in the church. There are two places in the New Testament that clearly and unambiguously address conflict resolution where sin is involved. In Matthew 18:15-17, Jesus gives the steps for dealing with a sinning brother. According to this passage, in the event of conflict involving overt sin, we are to address it one-on-one first, then if still unresolved it should be taken to a small group, and finally before the whole church if the problem still remains.

The other passage where this is addressed explicitly is Luke 17. In verses 3-4, Jesus says, “Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' you must forgive him." An essential part of conflict resolution, according to this passage, is forgiveness. Any kind of disciplinary procedure should always have restoration of the sinning person as the ultimate goal.

The reason conflict resolution is so difficult is that we’re hesitant to place ourselves in uncomfortable situations. We’re also frequently unwilling to humble ourselves enough to admit that we might be wrong or to do what it might take to make amends if we are wrong. Those who do this best are often those who would prefer not to talk to others about their sin, but will do so out of obedience to God. If the matter is relatively minor, it may be that the best thing to do is to overlook the offense (Proverbs 19:11). If it cannot be overlooked, one must pursue reconciliation. This is such an important issue to God that peace with Him and peace with others are inextricably entwined. We cannot know peace with God unless we are at peace with one another, and we cannot truly know peace with others unless we are at peace with God.

Recommended Resource: The Peacemaker: A Biblical Guide to Resolving Personal Conflict by Ken Sande.

www.gotquestions.org

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 5, 2012 at 6:59pm

Hi Seeking,

I'm not sure how this is related to the discussion.

 

I'm sorry that you are having to deal with that...

I suggest taking it to your Pastor and/or leaders in the church. Approach the discussion prayerfully,  logically, reasonably and thoughfully, and I can't see how they would reject you.  Let them know that their attempts at making the message more interesting or 'griping' are actually harmful.  Ask them to show you in scripture where such 'flashy' demonstrations have ever been used.  I don't know if this will help... Anyway...  Use your strengths...pray about it, and approach them in the way that God has gifted you...fully embracing your individuality. My way may not work for you. :-)

 

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on March 6, 2012 at 5:45am

Carla,

Actually, I was talking about rules for ourselves to go by. We are never right to judge another person. I might see something  wrong in you by my standards, but I shouldn't judge you for the way you perceive life to be. I need to be judge of only myself. However, we all need rules to follow. Becoming pharisaic about a rule is judgment of other people.

The way I look at it is what is said in God's Word is spoken directly to me. If you haven't following a particular rule that is in God's Word it is my place to remind you of it. It isn't my place to enforce it. Holy Spirit does that.

Joe,

You are right...Christ doesn't change. He is the same...yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He is our example (or He should be). We each need to get rid of the things that are not Christ-like in us. We can't be *our brother's keeper* regarding how people conduct  themselves. That is definitely not what God wants us to do. He does want us to live by what He has put forth, and if our brother is living differently, He wants us to guide that other person to whatever He has said about the action that is wrong without judging if a person doesn't get it right.

Amanda,

As you yourself have told us, you are suffering from depression. The only advice I can give is that you need to consider what God says about any affliction....anything wrong in our lives. I believe that the affliction of yours can be overcome as with any other affliction...as long as you practice what God says. It requires practicing any and all of the rules that God has stated in His Word. I have problems that I am not making progress on. They remain because I am not using God's Word to remove them. I know what God says but I can't seem to get them to work for me. Self is too strong in this area of my life.  There are things I need to do...things I need to learn...to make God's Word work in this area of my life. So far it isn't working...the affliction is still with me. I will continue to work at it though.

This entire topic is good for all of us, teaching us that we aren't alike except for our love of Christ. After that, we all have differences. These differences...this diversity...can work for us, as long as we don't demand that others follow our example.

Blessings to all.....

Rita

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 6, 2012 at 9:37am

Rita, we can not judge the eternal destiny of another person, but does Scripture really tell us we are not to make judgments?

You said:

I have problems that I am not making progress on. They remain because I am not using God's Word to remove them.

That is a judgment that you are making about yourself and your problems.

You said:

Becoming pharisaic about a rule is judgment of other people.

This is a judgment that you are making about people who judge others as becoming pharisaic at times about a rule.

In fact, the very statement "We should not judge" is a judgment. If we are to correct and rebuke, etc... we have to make judgments.

In John 7:24 Jesus says: “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

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