The Sabbath Day

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 27, 2012 at 9:15pm

Interesting view, but sadly in error. Your attempts to put the Bride of Christ under the bondage of the old Covenant are unfortunate. Our Savior died to free us from slavery and such teachings only attempt to put freed men and women back under that bondage.

 

Paul's writting is of equal value to all other Scripture when we recognize that the Holy Spirit is the true author of the Bible.

 

The Bible is a legal document with various covenants given by God with each giving more light than the previous. The ew Covenant, which is NOW in effect has been brought forth in Jesus Christ and is founded in His blood..

 

 

Permalink Reply by M Ann Brown on January 27, 2012 at 11:10pm

 LT:

   When was the New Covenant instituted with the parties on the "contract", the House of Israel & Judah?

Jer. 31:33-

   But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with **the house of Israel**; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law (H 8451 torah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
~~~~~~~~~

LT:

   When has Israel had God's/YHWH's LAW in their hearts?

It didn't happen "at the cross"  Judah was the one responsible for Him going to the Romans and there after to the cross.  Israel was in "captivity" and dispersed among the nations.

It didn't happen by 70 A.D. since YHWH destroyed Jerusalem due to Judah's rebellion, in "receiving Him not."

So when from the time of the cross, until today did Israel or Judah accept His laws in their hearts and  their Messiah and their "New Covenant"?
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~  

You face another dilemma in

Jer. 31:34

 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD:

***for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them***

, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now LT, do you understand what this text is telling us.   When the New Covenant is instituted, there will be NO NEED for evangelism!!! Because EVERYONE will know HIM.  Their sins will be forgiven, and He will remember their sins no more!

So, LT, when has all of Israel and Judah,  had all their sins forgiven?

When has  everyone who claims to be a Christian,  not needed to be taught about God/YHWH?

Please give us the scripture and the date when these  events occurred, since you insist that we are already in the New Covenant, although none of these texts have been fulfilled, I am merely asking you as a formality, since we know these events have not happened yet.

If you have no text and no date that these things came to pass, please admit it, so we can get to the next point on why we keep the Holy Sabbath of the Lord every  7th Day.
The Sabbath is part of the "law/Torah (H 8451)" written in the heart of the                      New Covenant believer.

Check out:

Law  #  H 8451

 

 8451 [e]
tō·w·rā·ṯî
תּֽוֹרָתִי֙
m

 This is the definition of the"law" that is to be written on your heart in the New Covenant

my law

towrah  (to-raw')
a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch -- law.

http://biblelexicon.org/jeremiah/31-33.htm

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 27, 2012 at 11:24pm

The short answer is that the church and the Jews are two separate entities. God will finish His work with the Jews once the age o fthe church is completed ... both under the New Covenant. The Jews, who are not born again still live under the Old Covenant. The Gentiles that are not born again are still lost due to personal guilt before God. The Bride of Christ, all who are born again, have been redeemed, sealed, marked, given a new name and been regenerated and justified under the New Covenant that is the blood of Christ. In order for the aspects of the New Covenant in Christ to be in effect personally one must be born again. Thus we have two basic kinds of people today. Those who are born again and have entered into the New Covenant and those who are not born againe and still live under law. People will be seen by Father God as either covered under the blood or guilty under the law. One or the other ... not both. There is no problem here ....

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 27, 2012 at 11:48pm

Exo 31:16  The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to

come as a lasting covenant.

Exo 31:17  It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.'"

Permalink Reply by M Ann Brown on January 28, 2012 at 1:07am

 LT:

   You are correct, the Sabbath was and is an EVERLASTING COVENANT, among the many covenants for the people of Israel.

   Therefore, you shot yourself in the foot!  We have no reason to believe  since  ALL THE DISCIPLES WERE JEWS/ISRAEL that they would   have violated that covenant,by breaking and teaching others to break the Sabbath!

So you must decide, the Apostles either BROKE the Sabbath as your church, and man made doctrines taught you, or they KEPT THE SABBATH, as I am presenting, according to the EVERLASTING COVENANT given them by their FORE FATHERS as you just explained.

 LT, do you teach that Jesus  broke the Sabbath?

If He did He is a Sinner, and you need to look for a saviour somewhere else.

If He DIDN'T, and since we are to "walk in His steps", shouldn't YOU be keeping it just like He did?

His teaching in Matt. 28:19 - 23,  was that the Apostles were to teach the Gentiles to OBSERVE, whatsoever He taught His Jewish disciples.   He taught His Father's word without error.

Please tell us based upon what that Jesus said, would the Apostles STOP teaching the Sabbath commandment according to the only way they knew, to teach the "Stranger"/Gentile, to keep the Sabbath, as is found in

Isaiah 56:

1 This is what the Lord says:

“Maintain justice

and do what is right,

for my salvation is close at hand

and my righteousness will soon be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man who does this,

the man who holds it fast,

who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it,

and keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3 Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the Lord say,

“The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.”

And let not any eunuch complain,

“I am only a dry tree.”

4 For this is what the Lord says:

“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,

who choose what pleases me

and hold fast to my covenant—

5to them I will give within my temple and its walls

a memorial and a name

better than sons and daughters;

I will give them an everlasting name

that will not be cut off.

***6And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord

to serve him,

to love the name of the Lord,

and to worship him,

all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it***

and who hold fast to my covenant—

7 these I will bring to my holy mountain

and give them joy in my house of prayer.

Their burnt offerings and sacrifices

will be accepted on my altar;

for my house will be called

a house of prayer for all nations.”

8 The Sovereign Lord declares—

he who gathers the exiles of Israel:

“I will gather still others to them

besides those already gathered.”
~~~~~~~~~~~

Isaiah upholds the Gentile keeping of the Sabbath, NOT as something that is a burden or to be dreaded, but as a BLESSING, from God...

Lt,  does it say somewhere in  the Bible say that keeping the Sabbath is a burden, rather than a blessing that Jesus came to free us from?   It is from Paul's writings that are misinterpreted as you can see when you put his misunderstood teachings on the Sabbath along side of the prophets' he is in dissagreement with them, and at odds with the commandments of God as well.
 
The clear, concise word of God, our Father, Jesus, the Apostle's and the prophets' providing more than 2 or 3 witnesses, regarding the Holiness, Blessedness of the Sabbath,  cannot come SECOND to the one witness/opinion /misinterpreted writings of Paul.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2012 at 5:18am

Jesus lived under the Old Covenant and meet every requirement of that Covenant fulfilling for all time its requirements. There is nothing amiss here and nothing new on your part. The Sinai Covenant was given to the Jews.

 

The issue is not burden or blessing. The issue is that a few people wish to put a yoke on people that they need not carry. You are free to "attempt" to keep the Sabbath ... it will not please God anymore or less than a worshiper coming to Him on Monday or Friday in worship and love. You are not free to put your burden on others when it is not a Command under the New Covenant to the church to keep the Sabbath as given on Sinai.

 

When you say that Paul's writtings are in error YOU ARE STANDING IN JUDGMENT OF GOD'S HOLY WORD. THAT IS A DANGEROUS PLACE TO BE. YOU CANNOT TAKE WHAT YOU LIKE AND THEN BRUSH AWAY WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE. PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE TRUTH......

 

In Isaiah there was no other system and only the Old Covenant(s). Thus seeing Gentiles worshipping is natural and expected in that era.

Permalink Reply by M Ann Brown on January 28, 2012 at 1:33am

LT:
   You are deeply into "Replacement Theology"
   What you have posted above is purely confusion...

   Please show us where God is making a "New Covenant" with the Gentiles APART from Israel.

  Everything you have written above is purely man made tradition.  No scriptures posted in your message above to provide a Biblical basis for what you expect us to believe.

Permalink Reply by M Ann Brown on January 28, 2012 at 1:40am

Here are ALL of the texts mentioning the New Covenant.  Nowhere does it mention GENTILES, Him entering the covenant apart from Israel, or any of the other things you mentioned above.

Jer.31

1. [31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Heb.8

1. [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
2. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb.12

1. [24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
   
   
   

---

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2012 at 5:26am

Yes, Jeremiah was looking foward to the initiation of the NC. The time where the House of Israel will experience it is yet to come and yet in the meantime while God waits to return to the Nation He has opened the door to the Gentiles and Jews who become born again to enter into the NC which was initiated through His death and resurrection.

 

You accuse me errantly of replacement theology when your theology is belnded and confused. One of the great mistakes people make when reading the Bible is to attempt to broad brush the Word ....

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2012 at 5:23am

Excuse me???? Just the oppsite is true. I see the two and presented them as two unique groups. The church age is underway while the 70 th week awaits it fulfillment in which God returns to His work with the Jews.

 

You have place a wrong label on me and and truly displayed a misunderstanding of where I stand ....

Permalink Reply by ManassehKnight on January 27, 2012 at 9:15pm

         Hey Kevin, interesting and fascinating topic, something I know allot about form Ancient research and the Bible. Ok yes Rome did had a pagan society based on many gods and goddess. Ranging form there's to Carthage, Phoenicia and Egypt and probably others. Ok Sun Worship as fare as I know, started in Babylonian times by Nimrod and Ishtar. In some research I read, Nimrod made himself Sun god. Here's my focus on this, Egypt lasted about 4000 years old basically, the longest going nation and Empire in History. And by Josephs account, was the most powerful Superpower of the Ancient World. So I believe as they adopted Sun Worship form Babylon, this formed Egypt's religion with all the other Egyptian gods and goddess. Egypt is on the sea, like a gateway form a land of time, time forgot about into the western world, and close enough to Greece and Rome, to influence them. They had Solor ships, probably like the Phoenicians had. Ok RA was one of Egypt's Sun gods, then in the 18th Dynasty under the rule of the Sun Kings of Akhenaten himself and his family, that were Kings and Queens. Brought birth of the new Sun religion over Egypt, the Sun god Aten, changing the face of Egypt. The Ancient Egyptians woke up with the sun at sunrise and were in there Temples with the suns alignment, worshiping it. Like I have seen on AllAboutGods main site, it says something to this effect for us today, its not about the Sun, its about the Son, the Son of God. Well Kevin form my research and stuff come to me form God, I feel strongly Ancient Egypt installed its ideas, it politics, its Religion and its Secret societies and occult into Greece and Rome and into Europe. I think the Pope is the Christized Pharaoh of Draco, is my thoughts, I would like to be wrong. and I believe there's many born again saved Catholics, yes. But the Pope and Rome I don't believe is born again. I think the Pope could be Serpis in the flesh, Osiris in Grekko/Roman fashion. I do know have a friend that use to be Catholic, she lived in Malta. She told me of how dark Catholism is and I lead her to Christ. So I don't believe the Pope and the Vatican on the whole is of God, but could be Serpis, not saying there isn't born again Christians in the Catholic Church now. Akhenaten had a daughter by research, her name was Meritaten, I have done lots of research on her, she was Princess/Queen under her dad Akhenaten, one of 6 sisters of the coming King Tutankamun. She left Egypt while it was in turmoil, with part of her dads Army and was married to the Greek Prince Gaylous. They helped form Ancient Greek Politics and religion I believe, then left for Spain and settled there for a time, then went onto the Ancient UK, helping to form the Ancient UK, this is one account how the Egyptians melded into our Western World.

Ok now to wrap this up, We are of the tree of Israel, grafted into there tree, once we are saved in Jesus Christ! We are the Gentile grafted into it. Christ is is our Shepard and we are the Sheep and hes the Lamb! Egypt in contrast is of the RAM, the goat, Satan, the Sun, the serpent, and the dragon. And I know some about the Illuminati and the Masons, there ways, symbolism, rituals are like Ancient Egypt's. So we should obey God and have Sabbath and have it on Saturday. I don't think it matters if we  have Church on Sunday, we have it on Wednesday. But we need to remember the Sabbath and on Saturday and keep it holy.  For we ant of the Sun people of Babylon, Egypt, Greece and Rome and other Pagan Ancient Empires now. 

Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 27, 2012 at 10:31pm

Manasseh, you said:

I don't think it matters if we have Church on Sunday, we have it on Wednesday. But we need to remember the Sabbath and on Saturday and keep it holy. For we ant of the Sun people of Babylon, Egypt, Greece and Rome and other Pagan Ancient Empires now.

What does the Resurrection of Christ mean to you? What does it mean to be under the law and to be under grace? 

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