The Providence of God, what is it?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 7, 2012 at 5:37pm

A couple of quick comments.

 

One, thanks for the kind words. I have not struggled with faith (belief) but did live in rebellion for 18 years. Though I personally have not struggled with belief I have dealt with many people over the years in the ministry and recognize that it is a real issue that requires a willingness on the person's part, the work fo the Holy Spirit and for fellow brothers and sisters to walk with them in this journey called life.

 

I think you misunderstood my application of the box, not that it is a big deal :-) I used it as a "Break in case of emergency" box. People tend to want Him to be in the box over there until they need Him, almost like the Genie in the bottle concept, and after they are done with Him they want to put Him back in the box/bottle until the next emergency.

 

IMO I doubt people really want a God who controls every aspect of their life including all of their choices. They may want that because of the struggle they are currently in and think that would fix it, but we are wired to work under God's economy ... a sovereign God who has given us liberties and we enjoy those liberties.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 5:54pm

Just some quick comments, too :)

1) Why do we tell people not to expect God to micromanage but then tell them just to pray and do whatever God leads them to do (not saying you do this but I hear people saying it to others all the time)?

2) Yes. There are actually people out there who believe God micromanages right down to the job they have -- it was God's will for them and they tell the grand story of how it fell into their lap, and the mate they have -- the grand story of how they met and it could not have been coincidence or accident -- to the timing of the births of their children and the delivery doctors or absence of one -- and on and on and on -- their home, even the college they attended, the scholarship they received or how they paid for college without any outside help.

3) I can't speak for others but I have never used God as a genie in a bottle or box -- and I did misunderstand your previous comment about God in a box.

4) It is obvious that in some instance God is micromanaging something even if God doesn't micromanage everything all of the time. This is the part that messes people like me up (not trying to make this discussion all about me but speaking frankly).

5) The person is showing willingness when they are seeking, questioning, and have not completely given up in the struggle IMO.

 

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 7, 2012 at 6:01pm

1) Seeking God's leading and guidance is interacting with a living God. God sees the beginning from the end and does dwell within us, but that is different from micromanagng IMO.

4) God has the right as a sovereign God to interject and to override our decisions. The reason I will not call it micromanaging is because He does not do it all the time, in fact probably very little as He allows the natural laws of nature to run their course, allows humnas to exercise ther liberties, etc.

5) Agreed.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 8:28pm

I had a sixth comment that I omitted, having lost focus.

You said:

People spend a lot of energy looking for rhyme and reason to what has hapened to them, especially at the hands of other human beings. The answer often is no more than a wicked person did a wicked thing ... no rhyme ... no reason, just life in a fallen place.

6) Many, if not all people, look for meaning in their personal suffering. Even Joseph was able to find meaning in his own suffering as he said to his brothers, You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. Genesis 50:20, NIV. I see nothing wrong with people trying to discover the meaning, or as you call it, the rhyme or reason. It is stories like Joseph's in the Word of God that cause people to search for meaning and to try to piece together the puzzle. Most of the time, we cannot see the big picture but only the frame around it or a small portion but we find that in the end of the story of Joseph's betrayal that he was able to see the big picture. Many are just reaching for that point -- and we always tell people not to look at the details but to look at the big picture, don't we? And yet, as they try to piece all of the details together to form the big picture, we often express disapproval of that.

It is also stories like Joseph's which make us believe that God's unseen hand is behind everything. Joseph was used by God to save Israel. I know not many of us will be used that much in God's over all plan or play that huge part. We still search for meaning though. We still search for growth and meaning to come to us out of the low points in our lives.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 8, 2012 at 7:32am

The rhyme and reason was revealed to him 20 years later. He had no clue while he was being sold into slavery, or when he went to work for Potipher, or when tossed into the jail for a few years. What he did was get on with life in each occasion and in God's timing, for him, the reason was revealed. Most will never have a clear view of the rhyme or reason and seeking an unattainable answer often keeps them in a personal prison instead of being free to move on with life.

 

So should one spend 20 years of life and energy seeking the answer that may never come or attempt to get on with life, as Joseph did, and be forward focused? Being trapped in yesterday is a horrible place to be and it need not be that way.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 8, 2012 at 9:57am

LT,

You said:

The rhyme and reason was revealed to him 20 years later. He had no clue while he was being sold into slavery, or when he went to work for Potipher, or when tossed into the jail for a few years. What he did was get on with life in each occasion and in God's timing, for him, the reason was revealed. Most will never have a clear view of the rhyme or reason and seeking an unattainable answer often keeps them in a personal prison instead of being free to move on with life.

I wonder why we think that people are not getting on with their lives simply because they look for the meaning in what they have suffered and are processing it, grieving, and are still functioning -- maybe not as well as they once were beforehand, but as well as they are able considering where they are -- an example, in Joseph's case, is when he was in prison literally and definitely not enjoying or knowing life as it was before he was cast into that prison? We are not privy to many of the conversations he had while he was in prison but we know he hoped someone would help him and experienced yet another disappointment. Was there ever a time when he might have felt frustrated and helpless? He was human wasn't he? Just because someone is re-visiting their past to find out why they feel so terrible in the present -- it doesn't mean they are not getting on with their life. IMO

You said:

So should one spend 20 years of life and energy seeking the answer that may never come or attempt to get on with life, as Joseph did, and be forward focused? Being trapped in yesterday is a horrible place to be and it need not be that way.

If forgetting about the past and never focusing on it or looking back at it in anyway is so valuable, then let's stop writing history books and stop putting up memorials and so forth ... I agree that being trapped in yesterday is not good. But why do we think that this is what is happening to people who were only able to get on with their lives after suppressing and denying most of their past instead of processing, accepting, incorporating it and healing to the point where the present is not only endured but enjoyed? Then something triggers all of it and they must go back in order to grieve and heal. You said Joseph made that statement 20 years later. His brothers took that long to actually ask him for forgiveness and Joseph wept when they did. Healing was taking place even then. Yes, it was in God's timing, and all the pieces in Joseph's life took awhile but finally fell into place and he was getting on with his life through the whole time of it, just as you are, and just as we all are. I have made it to this day. By the grace of God alone.   

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 8, 2012 at 10:37am

Amanda,

I do not wish to go round-and-round on this. Over the years I have met too many, way too many, people trapped and enslaved by their past. This being trapped by their past has hindered their present which affects their future. There are many on this site who display the same characteristics. They think they are doing pretty well, but yesterday still has their name. Confidentiality will not allow me to elaborate on any specific case here on AAG or in my ministry over the years.

 

Until a person finds freedom from their past their future will never be as bright or right as it could or should be.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on November 7, 2012 at 3:46pm

Amen Char!

I do not believe better words could have been used.  Wisdom can clearly bee seen.   Glory to the Lord!   And, thank you Sister for sharing.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 4:20pm

She's pretty bright -- though she doesn't like for people to say :)

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on November 8, 2012 at 5:14am

God gave us information and instruction  through His Word....all the way through it. He instructed us on how to live after Christ left. He detailed what will happen in the last days. Through Grace, He is saying "take what you have learned and live your earthly life with the knowledge. I have your back."

A problem arises when we forget what we have learned, or when others haven't learned because they never read the instruction book. In that instance, He sometimes yanks us out of the way. At other times, He says "Well done, faithful servant" and takes us home.

Blessings.....

Rita

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on November 9, 2012 at 8:41pm

Let us continue on in this subject.  For to understand this is to know Jesus, who is God's mystery.  The Son radiates God's own glory and expresses the very character of God, and He sustains everything by the Mighty Power of His command. When He had cleansed us from our sins, He sat down in the place of Honor at the right hand of the Majestic God in Heaven. Heb 1:3  Other translations "... He holds everything together through His powerful words.  As we press into the Character of Our Lord, we see One Thing Love.  Jesus in obedience to His Father, and His Great Love for us, went through "hell and back."  {I trust this offends no one}  

We search for ways to strengthen our Faith, when the ability is in and before us.  As we consider Jesus, ponder His Actions we begin to see Love yes, but more.  We see the One who through Him, all creation was made.  We see Him humble Himself and live as we do.  His Character never changed.  We see a few glimpses of how He acted in the Word.  Yet, it is those actions that we need follow.  "He holds everything together through His powerful words."  I believe He has and will always be, humble, kind, Loving, and very Powerful.  His Blood Cleanses us from sin.  His Body Heals us.  He is Wisdom.  When the time comes, He will show Himself a Powerful Warrior.  All of these things and, He tells us we must come to Him as a child.

We must focus on Jesus, the Source and goal of our faith. He saw the Joy ahead of him, so He endured death on the cross and ignored the disgrace it brought Him. Then He received the highest position in Heaven, the one next to the throne of God. Heb 12:2  We get so caught up in life, we forget how to live.  We are part of that Joy He saw.  Many things can be difficult; are difficult.  In those times, I Pray we focus on Jesus.  This is not complicated, it is difficult to die to our flesh.  Yet, as Our Lord did, He did not focus on the death before Him, but the Joy.  Let it be Father in Jesus Name we learn to look at the Joy not the dying to our flesh.  It is better to be obedient, than to ask for forgiveness.  His Joy is our Strength, maybe read Heb 12:2 again then think about, "..The Joy of the Lord is your Strength.  We are held together by His Word; everything you see, hear, touch, etc., His Word hold it all together.  God The Father is Working all things out.

Permalink Reply by Mitchell Sikich on November 10, 2012 at 5:28am

Yes Chris, Amen.

It is always better to be obedient to what our Sovereign Lord commands, than to have to seek forgiveness for poor choices exercised out of our free will to (choose). For when we choose wisely, His Joy as well as ours may line up.

Shepherd Dog. Arff!

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