Just Do It

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Amanda on February 26, 2015 at 11:31am

Eric, I'm glad you're here and count you as a brother in Christ.

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 26, 2015 at 6:44pm

A bit sick right now so not up to research but does anything in the Bible talk about possession in relation to illness? I know it took control of the boy throwing him into the fire etc...like a seizure. But it sounds like it was controlling his flesh, not making the boy want to throw himself in the fire. And there's the woman bowed over...again an affliction of the flesh but not a control of the mind.

He can only tempt us in our minds, not control what we choose to do. But he can affect our flesh.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 27, 2015 at 5:38am

does anything in the Bible talk about possession in relation to illness?

Depends on what we call illness. We know that there are people who were blind, mute and/or deaf caused by demon possession recorded in Scripture. When the demon was cast out the affliction of the flesh was healed as well. We know that Job (though not possession) experienced his sickness at the hands of Satan. A question I cannot answer is did Satan after receiving permission from God to afflict Job operate with normal power or abnormal power allocated for this one instance. My opinion is he operated using his normal abilities. We always want to keep in mind that Satan, even described as the prince of the air or ruler of this world (loosely paraphrased) has only constituted authority. As Jesus told Pilate that he would not have any authority over Him but that which was granted by His Father (again loosely paraphrased) the same is true of Satan an any of his activities, including the use of his power. There are a lot of view points as to why Satan exists and as to why God allows him to do the things he does. I will leave that for another day and another discussion.

affliction of the flesh but not a control of the mind.

Though the Bible does not gives us 100% clarity on this I do believe we can build a case for what you have stated to be true. I will make two points. 1) When we are born again and Holy Spirit indwells us He does not take over our minds. We become one in the body of Christ and yet are still uniquely you and me. 2) No where in Scripture do we see a person who had been demon possessed chastised for their actions while possessed by the demon. We do not see them being held accountable. Thus it appears that the person (spirit) is overpowered by the demon and the control of the flesh wrestled away by the demon. On that same line we also do not see recorded anywhere where a person is accused of a sin or activity that opened the door for the demon to come in and indwell them. There is a common belief today that people by sinful action or personally inviting them in that they become demon possessed. The Bible does not record a single possession where the possession is attributed to the failure of the individual. In fact, to my knowledge, we do not see a causation recorded in Scripture. When possessed people are confronted they are possessed, the demon is exercised and nothing is said about the causation. Now, to belabor this a little, we know that Jesus tells the woman in John 8 to go and sin no more, but that is not directed at demon possession, nor was the woman possessed by a demon ... she had sinned and the action was her fault, not a demons.

He can only tempt us in our minds, not control what we choose to do. But he can affect our flesh.

I would agree as long as we include as stated before the understanding that when we say not control what we choose to do we are talking about the spirit, for we know the demon possessed, as recoded in the Word of God, lose control of the flesh and the flesh will do things that the spirit did not want to do. This ties in with the following:

Luk 11:20-23 NASB  "But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.  (21)  "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.  (22)  "But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.  (23)  "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.
Mar 3:27 NASB  "But no one can enter the strong man's house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house.

If these verses relate to demonic possession we can see, especially from Mark, that that in order for the home invader to take control he must first bind the homeowner.

Praying that you get to feeling better.

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 28, 2015 at 11:06pm

Not sure what you mean by Luke and Mark. I'm thinking of illness of the flesh as in satan being able to control flesh such as the "spirit of infirmity" or Job's boils. Paul talks about sin that dwells in our flesh.

Didn't mean to start this debate all over again. Just agreed with the thought that we often debate rather than do. How often does the church debate various matters while not doing what scripture says we should do with widows and orphans and helping those in need when we have plenty etc.?

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 1, 2015 at 11:07am

In some places, passages refer to the "lunatick" as being caused by demons. An example is Matthew 17:15-18.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+17%3A15-18&...

Also, in some places, "healing" and "casting out" appear to mean the same thing. An example is Luke 9:38-43. But here there is a pause between rebuking the spirit and healing the boy. Nevertheless, the boy was cured instantly.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+9%3A38-43&ver...

Permalink Reply by Carla on February 26, 2015 at 6:42am

Seek,

"I'm still not seeing it as "centered" on the demonic. I fine you could actually take 4 messages from it if we're going to dig them out."

The problem I see with this article, is that the author (whom I'm not familiar with) has surmised that a Born again believer, who is indwelt by The Holy Spirit, can be possessed.  That is his entire premise for writing the article.  It's 'the thing' that prompted his entire reason for sharing.  His premise is biblically incorrect.  A born again believer cannot be possessed by a demon.  Because of this, the focus is demon focused.  It's not Holy Spirit focused.  Is a demon more powerful than The Holy Spirit?

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by Tammy on February 26, 2015 at 7:18am

Carla,

Thus your introduction to the author

Permalink Reply by Seek on March 2, 2015 at 6:29am

Some see oppression as having a demon on you, around you, etc. causing the oppression...or I think he says in your pocket.  The point was not to debate whether the demon is in or around, whether it's possession or oppression, whether it's sickness or demon caused illness, but if any are sick that the elders should lay hands on them, if any are bound, we should set them free.  Sorry, but I simply didn't get caught up in wondering about demons on it, but about actually doing something instead of debating it. 

If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 2, 2015 at 7:13am

Seek,

"Sorry, but I simply didn't get caught up in wondering about demons on it, but about actually doing something instead of debating it."

Action is of course important.

The very nature of these forums is to discuss, not debate, the topics at hand so that we will be prepared to go and 'do'. 

However, a certain amount of understanding is required in casting out demons.  It's simply not something to take lightly.

This article from www.gotquestions.org articulates it well with the scriptures to back up why.

Question: "Can a Christian today perform an exorcism? What does the Bible say about casting out demons?"

Answer: Exorcism (commanding demons to leave other people) was practiced by various people in the Gospels and the Book of Acts—the disciples as part of Christ's instructions (Matthew 10); others using Christ's name (Mark 9:38); the children of the Pharisees (Luke 11:18-19); Paul (Acts 16); and certain exorcists (Acts 19:11-16).

It appears that the purpose of Jesus' disciples performing exorcisms was to show Christ's dominion over the demons (Luke 10:17) and to verify that the disciples were acting in His name and by His authority. It also revealed their faith or lack of faith (Matthew 17:14-21). It was obvious that this act of casting out demons was important to the ministry of the disciples. However, it is unclear what part casting out demons actually played in the discipleship process.

Interestingly, there seems to be a shift in the latter part of the New Testament regarding demonic warfare. The teaching portions of the New Testament (Romans through Jude) refer to demonic activity, yet do not discuss the actions of casting them out, nor are believers exhorted to do so. We are told to put on the armor to stand against them (Ephesians 6:10-18). We are told to resist the devil (James 4:7), be careful of him (1 Peter 5:8), and not give him room in our lives (Ephesians 4:27). However, we are not told how to cast him or his demons out of others, or that we should even consider doing so.

The book of Ephesians gives clear instructions on how we are to have victory in our lives in the battle against the forces of evil. The first step is placing our faith in Christ (2:8-9), which breaks the rule of “the prince of power of the air” (2:2). We are then to choose, again by God's grace, to put off ungodly habits and to put on godly habits (4:17-24). This does not involve casting out demons, but rather renewing our minds (4:23). After several practical instructions on how to obey God as His children, we are reminded that there is a spiritual battle. It is fought with certain armor that allows us to stand against—not cast out—the trickery of the demonic world (6:10). We stand with truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, salvation, the Word of God, and prayer (6:10-18).

It appears that as the Word of God was completed, the Christians had more weapons with which to battle the spirit world than the early Christians did. The role of casting out demons was replaced, for the most part, with evangelism and discipleship through the Word of God. Since the methods of spiritual warfare in the New Testament do not involve casting out demons, it is difficult to determine instructions on how to do such a thing. If necessary at all, it seems that it is through exposing the individual to the truth of the Word of God and the name of Jesus Christ.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-exorcism.html#ixzz3TEk20a35

Last night my youngest son was worried that 'something' was in his room.  He said he saw a figure walk across his room in the dark, and he was unsettled and couldn't sleep.

I simply felt led to pray for his comfort, reassurance of God's Love and protection, and reminded Joshua that God is far more powerful, and if he did see a 'demon' the demon had no authority in our lives simply because we trust in Jesus.  We are to put on the armor, resist the devil, be careful of him and not give him room in our lives.  We have a part to play.  We are responsible to do something, and then we are responsible to teach others what they can do.

I feel that simply casting out a demon is irresponsible, reckless and just plain dangerous.

The article makes an interesting and important point at the end...

"Since the methods of spiritual warfare in the New Testament do not involve casting out demons, it is difficult to determine instructions on how to do such a thing. If necessary at all, it seems that it is through exposing the individual to the truth of the Word of God and the name of Jesus Christ."

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by Seek on March 2, 2015 at 5:59pm

I have to disagree with that last quote. The NT definitely does involve casting out demons. Jesus did it and instructed His disciples to do the same.

Aside from that, I'll leave demon casting to the experts. I've had prayers over me that I could just tell were anointed. But that deliverance ministry I tried sometime back made me uneasy.

Permalink Reply by Seek on March 2, 2015 at 6:02pm

On another note, just this morning my son told me that he knows what to do if he ever has a monster in his room. He's going to tell him not to eat him cause he won't taste good cause his mom says he's spoiled. LOL

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 26, 2015 at 7:28am

To all,

(Note: This is not a direct response, nor intended to infer anything about the author or the article at the core of this forum discussion. This is a separate comment focused on a specific question that came up.)

I would like to address a question earlier in the conversation regarding the difference between possession and oppression. The basic understanding is that possession is when a demon indwells a person, lives in them, and possess certain power over the will and control of that person. Oppression is when demonic forces come against someone and attempts to persuade, discourage or harm by outside forces being brought to bear on the individual or group. A poor example is like trying to walk against a strong wind.

We from Scripture can find many examples of people who were not children of God being possessed by demons (and even here many today want to teach that is was some medical condition and not an evil spirit ... I trust the words of Jesus to be true when He calls it an evil spirit, for the Bible also says He cast out demons and He healed the sick, two different things). We have many examples of all human beings, unsaved and saved, experiencing outward pressure of demonic forces being brought against them.

What we do not see in Scripture is the recording of one child of God being demonically possessed or a demon cast out of a child of God. It is interesting to note that when we become a child of God there are many things that take place, but I will point out two. 1) We become the temple of God. 2) Holy Spirit indwells us, God lives in us. For a child of God to be demonically possessed that means a demon would be dwelling in the temple of God and live alongside Holy Spirit. Being indwelt by both the Spirit of God and a demonic spirit at the same time makes no sense and we know that God says He will never leave us or forsake us.

Lord Bless

LT

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