"Starbucks CEO: If You Support Traditional Marriage, We Don’t Want Your Business"

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Grazer #E2H on March 26, 2013 at 6:54am

Then can I suggest you don't wave a red rag in front of a bull because that's what you are doing with this.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on March 26, 2013 at 6:58am

The bull can choose to walk away. As TheNet Coordinator I cannot choose to walk away. We can agree to drop it and move on, which I highly recommend.

 

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 26, 2013 at 7:01am

Grazer,

This line of thinking that God would not condemn a loving monogamous loving relationship -even same sex, leads to a dangerous road of unbelief.  It also leads people down a path of false security... In the name of standing up for Love....it is not very loving because it is justifying a lie...AND directly lying to the people to whom you are attempting to appease.....as God clearly states in His word that homosexuals will receive the due penality of their error.  I dont believe that people are born homosexual..Im assuming that you do believe they are born that way.

There is a worldly agenda right now that is specifically targeting man and women relationships as God intended... Be careful what you fall for.  If you are not aligning yourself with Gods word than you are comprising and playing right into the hands of the enemy.

Permalink Reply by Grazer #E2H on March 26, 2013 at 7:24am

Hi Carla

I very much do believe they are, having spoken to many who are gay and heard/read their testimony. Also, the studies that are being done on sexuality are increasingly supporting this belief. So to say they will receive due penalty for their error doesn't make any sense to me because they have made no error; they did not choose to be gay.

In any discussion surrounding this, we need to distinguish between orientation and behavior. Even if you take the passage like the one LT quoted at face value, it is only condemning behavior and there are LGBT Christians who remain celibate for this reason. But they are still gay, their orientation is gay as opposed to straight, they choose not to act on those desires. The differentiation is key for this reason and for when we get into  whether orientation can be changed.

I am very careful, it's why I've been looking at this from every angle. But it hasn't led to me to un-belief and I don't see that it ever will since my faith/belief is not built on this issue. As for false security; don't see how that will happen either for the same reason

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 26, 2013 at 7:40am

Grazer,  I have to head out ...I'll try to comment back to you later on.. Today's a busy day for me...I should have more time tomorrow.

Permalink Reply by Grazer #E2H on March 26, 2013 at 8:03am

Hi Carla

You may be best sending me a message in private as I'm walking away from this one at LT's advice.

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 26, 2013 at 2:56pm

It's alright Grazer...  I'll walk away too.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 26, 2013 at 9:05am

I have views that fall on both sides of this discussion. Yes, I believe people are born with the unnatural desires that pertain to homosexuality. We are fallen. I also know that people are born with such birth defects that they have characrteristics of both masculine and feminine genders. I personally know someone who, on the outside looks like a man, but x-rays inside show female reproductive organs. This person is unable to perform sexually. What should he do? What can he do, except choose to remain this way or to become either/or? What if you had a child with these physical "defects"? I just can't imagine.

Homosexuality isn't new to mankind. Pederasty was in ancient Greece. I'm sure homosexuality was one of the major sins in the first world destroyed by the flood. Many choose this lifestyle; some are born with physical "problems" -- not the right amount of female/male hormones or even organs, etc ...

It is true that many who are homosexuals and who become saved do not become automatically physically attracted to the opposite sex. They choose to remain celibate and fight the temptations. Sometimes for the remainder of their lives. Others do marry the opposite sex and have children.

As far as the man-made law to marry, many marriages between males and females are sinful. A believer marrying an unbeliever. Two people who are divorced and committed adultery, marrying another. Etc ...

The thing is what does God say about marriage? What is the marriage covenant that is made between two people before God?

My belief is that the marriage covenant is between one man and one woman for as long as they both shall live. Yes, whatever the man-made laws are regarding the act of getting married should be followed, as long as those laws are not in direct violation of God's laws and commands. But we violate God's command when a man and a woman marry, divorce for any reason other than sexual immorality, and marry again and the man-made laws say that's OK. So, yes, man-made laws may permit homosexuals to marry and I think I would be asking for a double standard if I tell lawmakers that in God's eyes it's OK in our society to marry and commit adultery or for believers to marry unbelievers but not OK for homosexuals to marry.

Now, while God may recognize the marriage covenant between a male and a female committing adultery and ask them to stay married after forgiving them for the adultery, I don't believe God recognizes the marriage covenant between two homosexuals, but because of the man-made laws regarding discrimination, man really has no choice but to allow all forms of sinful marriage. It doesn't mean it's God's will. God has given man liberties. So if God allows it, then ... At the same time, we have to preach and teach the truth. God allowed many wicked kings to come to power in the OT. Someone here mentioned Hitler. God has a plan and is sovereign.

There are many aspects to look at here. The soul is what matters to God. There is forgiveness for all sins except blasphemy. We know not everyone will be saved. We live among ungodly people. We need to be in prayer.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 26, 2013 at 2:37pm

PS Here's a good article from gotquestions and it says that "about 1 in every 2,000 newborns is born in an intersexual state."

http://www.gotquestions.org/hermaphrodites.html

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 27, 2013 at 2:19pm

Amanda,

I agree that some people are born with certain tendencies....everyone has sin to overcome... 

I also believe that for various reasons (abuse, abandonment) some people choose a gay lifestyle...

I also know that Jesus helps us to overcome all sin no matter what it is.

Anyway....

I've decided to follow LT's lead and not engage in this discussion.

 

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by ribbon on March 27, 2013 at 2:41pm

I hope yall someday reengage in this subject. I know that at this time it is very touchy because  of the political fight going on right now but I really do hope it is picked back up someday. I remember once looking for a book on Amazon and came across a book ... I almost ordered it but after reading the reviews and about the author I didn't. I cant remember the name of the book or the authir but I remember the author was a pastor who changed from believeing homosexuality is a sin to believing it is ok. One of the reviewers  said that the book talked about the pastor finding out that his son was dying of aids. He then first learned his son was gay. He hadn't seen his son in a long while and wanted to go see him before he passed. The reviewer said the pastor wondered what he would say to his son. He said he didn't want to hurt his son. He said when he went to his son he told his son that it "WAS OK" to be who and what he was. His son thanked his dad and then I believe he died shortly after that. I read that the pastor then questioned his belief and then later changed the way he believed. I also heard that this divided his church. Half  felt like he was changing the words of the bible to help himself believe his son wasn't in sin. .... This scares me .... I believe that  he should have held his son and said I am here for you lets pray....something like that anyway. Not just say his sin was ok. I know gay isn't the only sin....ok I will stop too .. I just reread this and lol im soooooo slow in my thoughts. 

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 27, 2013 at 2:51pm

My apologies, Carla. I didn't realize LT had suggested that everyone not engage in this discussion as replies for it have been left open. I do see how it can easily become a heated discussion. I also see that there is some value to be gained if people tread lightly and in love. I will refrain from further replies as well.

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