spiritual warfare and deliverance ministry

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 13, 2012 at 6:20am

HI Char,

Whereas I understand what you are saying about the division of  ministry, I have a different opinion then you or others on what individual believers can do and are called to do. I do believe that every believer is called to witness and that is not even something the Spirit should have to urge them to do. And I believe that just because ones main calling is not in a certain area, it does not mean that God will not call on them and empower them to use gifts they have never used before. I think all believers are called to walk in the gifts of the Spirit whether one is their primary gift or not.  Also most in the discussion seem to speak of the extreme as far as encountering a demon possessed person and how they could never handle that. Yes I agree that would be rare and the norm is more  the oppressed person. But if believers never or rarely encounter oppressed persons, I'd like to know what planet they live on???

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mary O on January 13, 2012 at 7:56am

Hi Char God bless,

You're a living epistle. Let your light shine wherever you are. If God knows you'll live for Him, he'll put people in your path.

Love,

Mary

Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 13, 2012 at 8:24am

Char, I agree with Mary O. You don't have to live by anyone else's rules for what a Christian should look like, speak like or act like. You do what God lays on your heart. Many others can do and do and do as they see fit, but I memorized 1 Cor 13 when I was 16 right after I was saved and I saw then that love was most important.

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

You have a great love for those who are hurting.

Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 13, 2012 at 12:44pm

Hi Char,

You have misunderstood a number of things I said.  Did I say anything about Jesus in the written accounts given in the Word or any of us having everyday encounters with demon possessed individuals?  Of course we don't know how often Jesus encounters demon possessed individuals because He gets around, but not so with us. No, I said I have encountered  incidents with the demon possessed a few times.  I think I gave 3 examples. I said what is more common is demon oppressed people. I also acknowledged that certainly not all cases fall in either category, but are simply the works of the flesh. I said I do encounter oppressed individuals a lot since  I am out in the witnessing field. Nevertheless, I said all of us encounter oppressed individuals.  I do believe demonic activity that causes people to be hateful acting is common. I do not think that is rare as some of you seem to be saying. When a person opens the door to sin, I feel he is inviting demonic influence into his life- thus the behaviors you see.

Also did I say anything about you being a full-time witness standing on street corners handing out Bible tracts? What I did say is, I believe all of us are called to witness meaning whenever the opportunity arises.

And your last two sentences- did I say anything like this? No, I never said it and never tried to make you or anyone feel bad. You seem to me like someone who is doing a great job growing in the Lord. I never had a single thought or intention toward you like all you came up with here. I love you in Jesus and when I hear of situations you are going through in your life, I pray for you just like I do for everyone else I encounter here.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 13, 2012 at 8:30am

Jane,

But if believers never or rarely encounter oppressed persons, I'd like to know what planet they live on???

There are many hurting people in this world--this is true--but many are being oppressed by people and not by satan. I don't think it's the same thing--I think we have to discern what is God and what is satan and what is people.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 13, 2012 at 10:54am

Nancy, thank you for your insight. I can't speak for Jane, nor can I say that I see what she is trying to say. I can only ask someone to elaborate. I can do that by asking more questions. I can respect another person's point of view and still disagree with them. My disagreeing does not make me a bad person or make me someone who is letting satan pull her strings. It means I at least care enough about someone to try to see where they are coming from and that I at least will consider whether or not if I should re-evaluate my own opinion and agree with the person. I think I would be  alot less defensive if I felt that others weren't labeling me (in essence, calling me names) simply because I do not see eye-to-eye with them on topics, such as depression, anger, pride, forgiveness, and discernment and so forth.

We draw circles that shut people out. I am not innocent.

I memorized a poem when I was a teen-ager:

He drew a circle that shut me out.

Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.

But love and I had the wit to win--

We drew a circle that shut him in.

So when someone calls me a heretic or a rebel (or in my case because I am depressed and have some anger issues)--it hurts and the person is shutting me out. But what I have to do is learn to love that person. This goes vice-versa, too, because I shut people out all the time anymore. Especially those who seem to have drawn circles to exclude me. :'(  

Permalink Reply by JB on January 13, 2012 at 2:04pm

One reason most Christians are fearful of demonic activity they may encounter in their Christian walk is, not believing they have the power to withstand the enemy when he comes to them: to test their faith. Because they are not sure they have the faith or the power to do so. What they really need to understand is, they, within themselves do not have that power, even Jesus said in John 5:30 NIV. “by myself I can do nothing, I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just because I seek not to please myself; but to please Him who sent me” Wouldn’t it stand to reason, if Jesus couldn’t do anything on His own, why then do we think we can? As the seven sons of one Sceva found; they had not been identified with Christ as Paul was, and the evil spirit knew it. When we attempt to do spiritual warfare on our own, we will encounter the same results as they did. When we look at a couple of scriptures that I have been studying; we will find the answer to our failures in this type of warfare, “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us” 2Cor.4:6,7

This is where Grace comes in, The reference of finding yourself in a dark ally? Before you went in that dark ally or any situation you find yourself in; Just prior to you going in, there was a little voice warning you of impending danger, we call it “an unction of the Holy Spirit (One)” but our fears and anxieties will gain the ascendancy over our sensitivity to that warning, and we find ourselves trapped. The Word tells us “to acknowledge Him in all our ways ” Why are we in these situations in the first place? Some to fulfill the lust of the flesh, like a bar, climbing a mountain, speeding, carousing around places we shouldn’t be, etc.

The Holy Spirit will lead us in the way we should go; called “by the Grace of God”

And it is sufficient for all our needs. So He told Paul.

So do we have the power and authority to stand against the enemy? By all means; as it says in Eph.3:20, “now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all we can ask of think; according to the power that worketh in us”

Christ, in us, our hope of glory.

Blessings

　

Jane

Reply by

Jane Smith16 minutes ago

Hi Joe,

Don't think I have ever met you on the site yet, so nice to meet you. I have to say that you and a few others have read some negative ideas into my words that are not there. When I used the expression dark alley I simply mean that we will all have dark alleys, so to speak, in our lives. I did in no way mean that if we as believers choose to foolishly walk into trouble or enter into sin apart from what the Spirit is guiding us to do, then what do we expect since we are opening the door for the enemy. No, not at all, this is not what I am saying. Let me give you some examples of what I do mean. Let's say you're a believer and someone in your family or a friend's family is on drugs or alcohol or has a porn problem or is abusive to family members in any way, what if the person says he is hearing voices that stop him every time he tries to read the Bible or surrender to God, or what if you have a co-worker or boss who is constantly sabotaging you at work, what if you are a teacher and a student constantly disrupts the class and is cussing you, or maybe a nurse is a patient in a care center where a patient is acting out, what if you are witnessing to someone and they become hostile towards you? I could give a hundred examples of oppression or possession that we encounter in life either when we expect it or least expect it, and not because we weren't listening to the Spirit. I am saying do we run from these situations or as believers do we listen to the HS and do what He tells us to do? I am not saying not to listen to the HS- I am saying just the opposite. And I am definitely not advising anyone to stand up to an oppressed or possessed person apart from the leading and empowerment of the HS. What I am talking about is coming to a maturity in Christ. I am explaining my own experience which I feel is not much different then the experience of most believers, that discipleship was in short supply in my churching. I am saying that I do not think it is healthy when churches are leader heavy and do not encourage individual members of the body to know how to walk in spiritual warfare. In the very extreme example I gave of the man who came to our church who was most definitely demon possessed, 4 ushers who were big guys built like body builders attempted to restrain him and he would keep popping up in the air and throwing them off. That day which I will never forget, I was just a new believer, but I was filled with the HS and the Spirit did not tell me to run. He told me to pray in intercession for the pastor and the ushers who were dealing with the man and to stay and observe how they did so for my future knowledge. It was one of the scariest things I had ever seen in my life, but I obeyed the Spirit. Trust me, I didn't stay out of curiosity lol. No, I am simply saying that we will all encounter situations in our lives that require us to stand against the enemy, again, not in our own might, but in the authority and power of the Holy Ghost, and I think it is essential that we know how to conduct ourselves in ministry to troubled people when those times come .

I was once in a church and a man that came to a service was truly demon possessed and began to act-out right in the middle of the church service in front of everyone. Guess what happened? 99% of the church members ran out the back door of the church as fast as they could run lol! I'm laughing because I never forgot that as it made such an impression on me that day. But in seriousness, it's not funny. The question is, why does the average believer know so little about spiritual warfare?

Hello Jane,

I am still wondering how you think I, or we, have taken out of your post negative connotations.

I thought we both were speaking metaphorically, the allies, dark places etc.

As far as deliverance and warfare is concerned, a good lesson can be learned from the incident in Mat.17:14-21, The disciples obviously came across a situation they thought they could handle, after all, haven’t they been doing this sort of thing for some time before they encountered this one? When they asked Jesus why could they not cast out the devil, and Jesus said “because of your unbelief” if you have the faith of a grain of mustard seed you could move mountains, “paraphrase” and nothing shall be impossible unto you, howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting, now I ask, what doesn’t go out but by prayer and fasting?

Most will think it is the devil, but He just told them the reason they couldn’t cast him out, was because of their unbelief; prayer and fasting will get the doubt and unbelief out of your heart, but that doesn’t cast out demons, only faith can do that. So it is not a matter of having more faith, but having, no doubt. When you have the faith or confidence that you can cast out the demons, as you have that Jesus can, then and only then will you be able to do it. I know and understand that we don’t always have the time it takes to fast and pray every time a situation presents itself to a Christian, This is why He says “building up your selves in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost” A good example can be found in Ro.8:26-28, we don’t know what we should pray for as we ought, but the spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which can not be uttered… and he that searcheth the heart knoweth the mind of the spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. So how do we get the will of God? By praying in the Spirit. (Holy Ghost) and hearing what the Spirit is saying, how to do the intercession for the saints.

So we that pray in the Holy Ghost, (Spirit, praying in tongues) keeping ourselves built up in the Spirit, will know how to deal with any situation that arises unexpectedly, as in your case at Church. When we encounter situations such as this, and we are not “prayed up” fear can suddenly grip our hearts and we don’t know just what to do at that time, and with a wavering faith, the bible tells us not to expect to receive anything of the Lord.

I wish I could say that I am prayed up at all times, but unfortunately I can’t.

There are a lot of scriptures in the bible: that some call controversial, I could name a lot of them, but just to name a few, To see a common thread,

Mat.17:17-21 dealing with deliverance through grace “intercession”

Rom.8,26,27 dealing with intercession, through grace.

2Cor. 12:7-9 Paul’s thorn in the flesh. Intercession through grace

I am in agreement that most of today’s Churches are not teaching the deeper things of God, or the bible. But I’m really not sure that it is their place to do so.

Because we are all called into different aspects of ministry, it would be very difficult for a preacher to teach all of them, in-depth. Bible says that the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you and ye need not that any man teach you, but that same anointing that teacheth you all things and is true, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him. So the ministries that we are seeking, is through grace, and that grace will teach you everything you will need to know about it and not from man.

Blessings,

Joe

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 13, 2012 at 5:34pm

Joe,

Halleluiah! YES AMEN- you are coming in loud and clear now!! Just wanted you to know that I read your post here just now and will look forward to responding to you soon, the next time I get a block of time. We are speaking the same language now :)

Bless you!

Jane

 

Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 16, 2012 at 9:41am

Hi Joe,

Returning to your post now.  After a careful re-reading of your post, I misunderstood what you were saying in re to opening the door to sin and not expecting God to back us up. That's why I replied to you that I never spoke of this type scenario in my initial post. Please forgive me, because I see exactly what you meant now- you had a whole different meaning. Good lesson for me in asking for clarification before I proceed to answer a post. We all do this from time to time which is one reason we get into this Tower of Babel effect that leads to disagreements.

With your subsequent post I understood you perfectly and saw the case you were making as to why believers  are powerless and run rather then face the enemy. And I want to say that I am in perfect agreement with you and you beautifully brought out how we have been given such powerful weapons to handle anything that comes our way- the blessed Baptism of the HS and God's  grace. If one doubts or doesn't understand what you proved from scripture I can only say, if one wants victory in Jesus, read Joe's post over, repeatedly if need be, until what he taught sinks in. Pray and ask God to reveal to you what he actually said. Most understand the concept of God's grace, but not all understand what the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is. You know what your respective churches have taught you it means, but I attest to you speaking the truth in love that it is much more then most of you realize.

To me it is like saying we get saved through accepting Jesus and then part 2 is receiving the HS baptism. Our salvation in Christ launches our new born again life and the Holy Ghost baptism enables us to grow strongly into Christ, helps us to understand our salvation in it's fullness and along with God's grace enables us to stand in any situation. That is why we must always be prayed up in the way the Word clearly defines the Baptism of the HS. When I finished reading your subsequent post, Joe, I couldn't wait to go straight to prayer using my prayer language.   There have been times in my Christian walk when I get busy and have forgotten to pray in my prayer language at the cost of God's anointing, protection and blessings. But I realized one day, it would be better to be too busy to eat or any of the other things we do in a day, then to forget to pray. At that point I made sure I never ever skipped a day again and the answers to prayer and all things good increased in my life. For those who have the mistaken idea that this baptism is not for all believers, or that it ceased long ago or any number of other explanations that explain it away, I would ask you to truly seek God to see if that is so. A number of you refer posters to a Bible question and answer site. I went to that site the other day and skimmed through it. I read where it said that it is  non-denominational effort to correctly interpret the Word to provide answers to Bible questions. I thought oh that's nice, a united effort of believers- what a wonderful thing this would be if the answers are accurate. Well then let me look up what answer is given for the validity of the Baptism of the HS with it's accompanying prayer language. I was amazed but not amazed that the answer given is that it doesn't exist today. It saddened me deeply how they took scripture and explained it completely away. The site might be billed as a non-denominational effort, but it was apparent to me that the part of the Body who views this subject as I do, was not represented. Is this an angry post I am writing? No, not at all. I rejoice in what Joe taught and I know from personal experience of knowing Jesus for a long time and being baptized in the HS as long, that he spoke truth to this group. As always, my post is my opinion and many of you might not share my beliefs and that is your free will choice- nothing written here is to push anything on you, but to state what I believe and I would appreciate the same of others.

Joe,  I also can appreciate what I think I hear you saying in your last two closing paragraphs, but this time I will ask for further clarification of what you mean so I can know if we are on the same page. So, please elaborate. If the Church should not be teaching the deeper things of God and that should come directly to our spirits via the HS, then what do you feel the Church should be teaching? What do you believe is the role of church leadership, of the way we meet, of discipleship, of unity etc. etc. for the Body of Christ today?

In Jesus's love,

Jane

Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 13, 2012 at 3:44pm

Char,

You seem to say I didn't communicate clearly thus caused you and others to get the wrong idea of what I said. I think when any 2 people care about communication they ask for clarification. I think it is a common thing for any two people to misunderstand what the other is saying. This can often be comical between men and women especially. There are several people in this thread and in all the threads I have been in who first assumed I meant something I didn't. When I offered clarification they then understood and politely/respectfully said I see what you mean now or said I didn't think you were saying what I thought you did, but wasn't sure- you know something to this effect.  To me, this is communication- people can they go on walking in love towards each other and being on the same team.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 13, 2012 at 7:51pm

Nancy, I would like to clarify that I do understand the topic but have asked Jane to clarify some of her statements because that is what I have been having trouble understanding--the way she has said some things makes it difficult for me to see what she is truly saying. I have specifically asked her to clarify and I have done so nicely and well within being respectful. being a genius has nothing to do with this, or not being one.

We are all growing and I am certain that no matter how much any of us know about any biblical subject, we will have room to learn more. I know I intend to keep pursuing Christ, to know Him and to know more truth, for he is truth. Often when someone is born again, they may think their pursuit of knowing Christ and being known by Him is over, but the journey has only begun.

As far as rebuking the devil and binding and loosing. I still need further clarification on those subjects. I have been taught what it says in Jude 9, KJV:

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

So if Michael does not dare to accuse satan but only said the Lord rebuke thee to him, then what does that mean for me?

The scriptures about binding and loosing seem to refer to church discipline and are for ways of dealing with believers, not demons. Or am I wrong about that?

Yes, I have much growing to do. I know.

Peace to you and to Jane and to all in this discussion and love and prayers in Christ our Lord,

Amanda

 

Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 13, 2012 at 7:52pm

Nancy,

What a loving post, thank you so much- you bless me, sister. As I told Joe, I don't have anymore time tonight to write more responses, but I have read every single post submitted and will get back to everyone who posted to me that I haven't gotten to in the order that the HS tells me to.  LT, I have been hoping you will not give the thread the axe due to miscommunications that have occurred. As Nancy said, I strongly believe that God wants to bring even more out of this thread to benefit everyone who has contributed. I pray that any miscommunications that have occurred will be healed.

Love to all,

Jane

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 7
• 8
• 9
• 10
• 11
• 12
• Next ›
• Page