All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
spiritual warfare and deliverance ministry
Have you ever wondered why it is that so few believers know more than just a little about how to stand against the devil and his demons? For one thing, most churches do not teach about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the gifts of the Spirit which is the power of God in our lives to handle spiritual warfare. So, that eliminates most believers right there. But even for those who are taught the Baptism in the HS and spiritual warfare, very few churches have in depth teaching on what spiritual warfare is and how to stand against the enemy. Most church goers in churches that do teach somewhat on this subject, look to the pastor to be the one to run the devil off. But where does it say anywhere in the Bible that only the pastor or the church leaders have the empowerment to fight spiritual forces? Doesn't it say that all believers are empowered to stand against the enemy?
I was once in a church and a man that came to a service was truly demon possessed and began to act-out right in the middle of the church service in front of everyone. Guess what happened? 99% of the church members ran out the back door of the church as fast as they could run lol! I'm laughing because I never forgot that as it made such an impression on me that day. But in seriousness, it's not funny. The question is, why does the average believer know so little about spiritual warfare?
I know some believe that we just need to focus on Jesus and not be concerned with what the devil is doing, that Jesus will take care of him. And I agree that we don't need to be looking for a demon under every bush. When ppl sin it is not the devil that made them do it although many like to joke that it was- no ppl sin when they are drawn away through their own lusts- they choose it.
But on the other hand, we are told in the Word not to be ignorant of the devil and his devises. In my opinion it seems like most believers are woefully under taught how to stand on the Word when it comes to spiritual warfare and I am sure that is just the way satan likes it. I mean most believers are afraid to even utter the name of the devil, it's like they pretend he doesn't even exist. It is one thing not to say his name in order to bring undue attention to him and to instead bring more attention to the Lord. But it is another thing to be afraid of him and not know how to stand in spiritual warfare against him and his demons.
So, I don't think there will be any great knowledge extended in answer to my post since most of us are pretty much in the same boat on this topic, but just wondering if anyone has anything to share as to personal experiences they've had when it comes to spiritual warfare or why they think we as the Church aren't more prepared to stand against the wiles of the enemy?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on
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Hi Mary,
No Ecclesia is not just any church, denomination, home group or body of believers. People think that the words church and Ecclesia are the same or interchangeable, but they are not. They have very different meanings. What I learned years back is that the word that was translated church comes from Ecclesia which means the called out ones. What I learned was there were those who broke off from what the early believers lived and began changing what Jesus taught and admonished back to the way it was before with a system of church goverment that was not the new pattern. So it is we have our system to this day with endless denominations and cults. In the typical church, there is a church hierachy or a single pastor who runs the whole show. A pastor brings a sermon each week from a podium while the people sit in the pews below and beneath him, so to speak, and are spoonfed the pastor's or the pastor's denomionations interpretation of the scriptures. The people never grow to maturity in the Lord, because this is all they have ever known and are not encouraged to develop their gifts or become leaders, because there can only be so many leaders. The youth are not encouraged to develop themselves and take on any kind of leadership either so they often drop out of church. As a result the people become spiritually lazy and become dependent on the pastor/system. They may get into what I call pastor worship where no matter what the pastor preaches, right or wrong, he is seen as always right, they blindly follow him and support him through their tithes. Often the pastors of these churches have very comfortable homes provided to them and expensive model cars. I have lived in 11 different states so that is 11 different churches I have been in plus the HS has lead me to visit a number of churches to see what they believe and teach and this is pretty much the pattern I have seen in every church I have experienced. There is an attitude of our church is the best church or the only true church, even churches within the same denomination do not see eye to eye. So the concept of unity with other denominations certainly does not exist. I could say much, much more, but I think most people know what I mean. Take everything you have every questioned about church, but were afraid to say and it all fits right here. So it was at this time that I was seeing all these things that I felt were very off that the HS brought the knowledge on Ecclesia to me. With Ecclesia, there is no hierarchy and no pastor in charge who delivers the main message. All believers are seen as one, with none better or held in higher esteem than another and all are encouraged to take part in the coming together of the saints by sharing what the HS has shown them during the week. This is the way our home meetings were conducted and it was such a blessing to hear what each one had to share and teach. Everyone expressed their gifts. We drew close and became more of a family caring and sharing each others needs. We broke bread together regularly. I learned at that time that the main role of a pastor is not to dominate the whole service, but to teach believers how to listen to the Holy Spirit so they could be lead directly by Him for their lives and be full participants in ministry together. So, this essentially is Ecclesia, but there is even more to it and we are still learning. Not fully sure what you mean when you say that you walk in deliverance on your own apart from your church. Well of course we all have our own gifts, but with Ecclesia all are discipled to desire the best gifts and to walk in them. We all desire to stand strong in our spiritual authority so that when we encounter people who need ministry or deliverance that we know what to do.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Jane,
In the typical church, there is a church hierachy or a single pastor who runs the whole show. A pastor brings a sermon each week from a podium while the people sit in the pews below and beneath him, so to speak, and are spoonfed the pastor's or the pastor's denomionations interpretation of the scriptures. The people never grow to maturity in the Lord, because this is all they have ever known and are not encouraged to develop their gifts or become leaders, because there can only be so many leaders. The youth are not encouraged to develop themselves and take on any kind of leadership either so they often drop out of church. As a result the people become spiritually lazy and become dependent on the pastor/system. They may get into what I call pastor worship where no matter what the pastor preaches, right or wrong, he is seen as always right, they blindly follow him and support him through their tithes. Often the pastors of these churches have very comfortable homes provided to them and expensive model cars. I have lived in 11 different states so that is 11 different churches I have been in plus the HS has lead me to visit a number of churches to see what they believe and teach and this is pretty much the pattern I have seen in every church I have experienced
Really?
You have never found a single church that is part of the Body of Christ?
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I am sorry, Jane, but I need you to elaboarate because I don't understand what you mean.
You said:
I could say much, much more, but I think most people know what I mean. Take everything you have every questioned about church, but were afraid to say and it all fits right here. So it was at this time that I was seeing all these things that I felt were very off that the HS brought the knowledge on Ecclesia to me. With Ecclesia, there is no hierarchy and no pastor in charge who delivers the main message.
There are passages of Scripture that talk about church leadership. Ephesians 4:11 says,
It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers.
Here is a good article about church leadership and leadership in general for we are to submit:
Does the Bible give any one individual spiritual authority over ano...
I am confused about your home meetings. Have you started a church of your own?
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Nancy, I haven't made it to that point yet, nor am I ready to go back to work. My leaving my church doesn't mean I think the church should give up meeting together. I gave up but that doesn't mean it is right or good. I am glad you care for me and are praying for me. Many people do not go to church and feel no sense of guilt about it. That is not true for me. We need church. God put the design in place for the local body of believers and it has purpose and is His will for His people. I think the Lord expects us to assemble regularly with believers as much as we are able. I haven't been able. That may seem surprising and yet it is true. Both the origination and the organization of the local church is very important and must follow biblical guidelines. Otherwise we are in danger of doing exactly the thing we accuse many others of doing--becoming part of a cult or at least going our own way and doing our own thing.
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Jane, I know you don't care too much for me but I really need you to clarify some of your statements here. It seems to me that you are saying all churches are apostate. Is that what you are saying? Are you saying the true called out ones are being called out of today's churches and going back to the way the early church held meetings in Acts? If that's the case, I have been out of church for awhile now and have not been able to find a new church--so maybe I have really been called out and should look for what you have found in your home group instead of joining another denomination.
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Permalink Reply by Mary O on
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Hi Jane God bless,
If you met me on the street, you would never think that I have cast out spirits. I am very meek and quiet. I've had persons mistake my meekness for weakness. I'd prefer not to lead the church service, but I love rolling up my sleeves and ministering. I have been set free, and I love to see others set free by the Word and Jesus' name. I want to see the tears of joy. If there is something (new knowledge, training or a specific ministry) that you wish to receive from God, meekness is required.
He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. (1 Corinthians 1:28-30)
God can teach us when we are meek and willing to listen, coachable. He can take us beyond what we thought possible.
Love,
Mary
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Hi Mary,
Yes I know all of this as this is how I live my life, too. My life took on a whole new level when God called me to be a street witness. I told the Lord with joy that I was excited to do what He wanted and all He had to do was show me how. One thing He told me is that He would draw people to me. Like you, I am just an unassuming lady and when I am out to do His will, I will just be standing somewhere and ppl come up to me like they are lost and looking for directions. They don't know why they have come and stood before me looking lost, but I know. And then I witness Christ to them. As I said, this is just one way the Lord makes it possible for me to be His witness. One does not have to be a super personality to be used of God- one only needs to have the want to and God makes it flow. In this thread I am asking what believers have experienced with spiritual warfare as I believe every believer should know what to do when ministering to or delivering those they encounter.
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I hope you don't mind that I share more. If at some point you need me to stop, let me know.
Say a demon is not acting out, but I think one might be present, I will ask God. But there's more to it. We have Christ in us. We are spiritual beings. Sometimes I can see them. I have also felt their presence like pressure or a heaviness. A morbid spirit will be very heavy or a spirit of oppression. I've seen a spirit of oppression hovering over a person. It was pressing down on her shoulders. The moment it left, she cried because she was free. I felt it leave. Three times I've seen a haze or light smoke in the room. In one instance it was a spirit of infirmity. The other instances it was deceiving spirits and familiar spirits. I can also smell them sometimes. Have you ever smelled death? I look at it like Jesus is giving me a clue that something's going on.
It's rare for me to initiate an open confrontation. Usually I pray and they leave, but I have had occasions when they talked to me. I've seen a spirit of python a few times, and they'll be very disruptive. They tend to hijack a church service. The words ... in the name of Jesus Christ stop that...took care of the situation. But a spirit of confusion or a spirit of infirmity could also be disruptive.
Maybe I need that personally. Maybe it strengthens my believing to know the names of the spirits, but I don't always get their names. It's most important that God is glorified and that the demons leave.
Love,
Mary
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Hi Mary,
I certainly don't mind- feel free to share your experience. I'm still not clear though on how you became acquainted with the spirit world- can you share more on how that came about? Just now, the Spirit lead me to look up the following verse: “But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.” (1 Corinthians 12:7-11) As you can see, "discerning of spirits" is on the list. In the past, I heard teachings on the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit, but like so many other subjects, it was never taken further and we were not discipled to develop our gifts. I can't believe I am just now coming back to this when this is something I should of learned a long time ago. So, do you feel you have the gift of discerning of spirits or did you reach this sensitivity some other way? Do you go to a church where the gifts are encouraged and flow?
Something you said that I relate to is the example you gave of the dark mist. I attended a church one time that I very much loved. I moved out of state for a time and when I moved back I thought I might be way behind my brethren there in my spiritual growth since this was such an alive church while my new one was not nearly so god. But to my total surprise, when I moved back I found that most of the original brethren had left and the church had lost it's anointing. I was very perplexed at h0w this could be. The Spirit told me it was because when I was away, I continued to study the Word even though my church out of state was not as dynamic as my original one. He said it is not a church that keeps growing, but the individual members. So, since I had always kept up my spiritual study, I grew ahead of most of the original members. I was getting fidgety as the original church was just not the same anymore, and not only that, but without the anointing, it was no longer the dynamic church it had been. The HS began leading me to leave it even though I did not have another church to go to. I didn't want to leave it thinking at first well what could I do to contribute to make it the church it once was. But the HS still kept leading me to leave. What happened was, for about the last 3 Sundays I was there, I kept thinking there was something wrong with my eyes, because I was seeing this dark mist throughout the sanctuary. I kept think why is it so dark and lifeless in here? Finally, by about the 3rd Sunday I could not take it anymore- I knew the HS really meant it that I was to leave this church. The dark mist I kept seeing seemed to say to me that this church was no longer pleasing to God. So, when you say that a dark mist signified the presence of demons to you, I wonder if the absence of God's anointing on this church also meant that demons had moved in. I don't know, but what had once been such an anointed church had become a very dead church.
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Hi Jane God bless you,
I have been aware of evil spirits since I was a child. It just never went away. Many persons have a veil. I talked to a minister about it. I guess I thought everyone was seeing what I can see. If you grow up with it, it seems normal. Before I accepted Jesus as my Lord, evil spirits were a big part of my life. I don't talk about it a lot. When witnessing, I don't lead with that subject. I don't want to scare people. Even after I accepted Jesus, it became hard for me to discern when God was talking to me and when a spirit was talking to me. It took a while for me to learn the difference. God's voice is like a whisper or a breeze. His voice is very peaceful.
Love,
Mary
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Hi Mary God bless you too,
Yours is an interesting background. If you think it is too spooky for a group like this, you are welcome to email me privately via the group private email feature- as you can see, the HS is taking me in this direction and I welcome discipleship. There was a neighbor I witnessed to once and she came to Christ easily- it was a powerful conversion with her getting saved and Baptized in the HS all on the same evening. It is quite a testimony. I don't know if you have anything in common with her as to why you have been conscious of demon activity since childhood. In her case, she had lived on the dark side so to speak having endured a gang rape, drugs and crime. She had told me that she had experienced visitations by demons as her upbringing and the subsequent events that happened to her had been so rough. Demons would show themselves to her before Christ, don't recall if this continued after she was saved, but she was a very discerning believer due to her previous experiences. I would agree that when I am in the presence of God and He is teaching me something it is a feeling of peace. When the HS speaks to me it is like words or an idea that just envelope me gently. I have also had God speak to me in an authoritative, louder voice that sort of filled up the whole room like no voice I had ever heard before so there was no mistaking it was God. As far as demons, I have heard what I think was their voices briefly and it was like a sneaky whisper. This in itself is an interesting subject as to what others experience when they hear God speak to them. I don't think I have ever read a thread on it. Would be interesting to start a new thread- I might just do so later. But just want to say that the topics of spiritual warfare and deliverance are important to me, because when I witness to people I often discern demonic oppression or possession. They are stuck, running from their past. I have to become more discerning if I am going to minister to them. The Lord has given me a word of wisdom or knowledge on a number of occasions to minister to them, but I am meeting more and more people with serious issues that are in need of more than just the average witness- they need a deliverance.
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The group's good. Besides, we get input from LT and other believers.
I was thinking about Acts 16:16-18.
And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
The girl with the spirit of divination (python) followed Paul and Silas around many days. We can learn a good deal from this record. Paul was grieved by it. It was disruptive and acted out. Did she interrupt a lot, clear her throat and yell out during Paul's sermon? Or consider, was she a heckler and taunting them? My experience with this kind of spirit is that it has a sharp tongue. In my opinion, the girl was jeering at them. Either way, we see Paul was grieved and spoke to the spirit, addressed it directly. And God's word identifies the spirit. It suggests to me that Paul called it by its name. When commanded in the name of Jesus Christ, it left.
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