spiritual warfare and deliverance ministry

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on December 29, 2011 at 4:47am

Jane,

There are numerous reasons why people don't understand spiritual warfare.

There are people who believe only what their pastor says. Their pastor doesn't teach spiritual warfare. If any subject is brought up, and the pastor doesn't respond positively to it, they won't respond positively to it.

They read the Bible but they don't believe what the Bible says. In a conversation with a pastor's wife on day, I quoted something *word for word* that Jesus said.  She told me that I was wrong. I then told her it was a quote from Jesus. Then she comes with the *buts*....

The Bible tells us that greater responsibility is put on the pastors for what they teach, accuracy etc, but...how does a person know that if they haven't studied it or read it? They don't. 

I could go on like this for awhile.

We do not give God enough time or thought to actually know what the Bible says or what the Holy Spirit is trying to say to us, to teach us.

I can bring up a topic with on of my kids who currently attend that same church and they say *hmm, or okay, or some other mundane response*. There is no drawing them into a conversation about what they think on the subject. It doesn't seem to be a concern of theirs.

The want to know needs to come from each one of us. We need to want to know what the Bible says. We need to check on the validity of statements that pastors make in church to see if they are preaching the truth but most don't take the time. I do because I want to make sure that I am not being railroaded by something someone is telling me, regardless of who the person is.

Many churches don't have a balance of preaching and teaching. The preacher goes one way or the other. People are being fooled in their security of going to church and that is enough. They hear the Word and just like in the parable, Satan comes and steals that Word. They don't ask God for understanding of what they hear.

Because of our lack of truly carrying about how to fight against the devil, we can't do it. Most of us, through our own ignorance, play right into Satan's hands. We are fooled into believing him. When he comes against us, we are powerless.

I frequently tell people that they need to focus on Christ and not watch the devil. My reason is that Satan is powerless. He is no big deal. He is only a big deal when we let him be a big deal. Who should we turn to? A person that has a degree in psychology, a counselor, or should we turn to the Creator of Lucifer, Who created him to be one thing and he chose to be something else and take us all with him? I focus on Christ and His Word. I focus on the One Who cannot lie. I choose Christ.

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 1, 2012 at 2:09pm

Rita,

Totally agree with everything you said. Jesus is the name above all names, His is the power above all power, the wisdom and knowledge above all others,  so why blindly trust and believe in those who are fallible?! Not that God can't speak to us through others, but that those who blindly believe or are complacent are idolators or the lukewarm who can never know/reach the truth, if not just babes in Christ.  You don't give any specific examples of where your study has taken you as far as spiritual warfare and deliverance. Do you have any examples you can share?

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Permalink Reply by Mary O on December 29, 2011 at 11:09am

It's very important to know the Bible. I don't think this means every single thing and all the answers. My opinion is that it's what you know, you believe. Belief is important. A life changing moment for me was when a spirit said...

Cast me out, send me to the deep, but do not read the word of God to me.

Never underestimate the power of the spoken word of God.

I read from Thessalonians about Jesus coming back with his mighty angels. It was clear this spirit was suffering.

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 1, 2012 at 2:43pm

Mary,

Can you say more about why it was that a demon spoke to you?

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 1, 2012 at 4:01pm

As for demon manifestations, I have encountered ppl who were severely demon possessed with the manifestations to go along with it on several occasions in my Christian walk. One instance was the one I already mentioned. This man showed up at our church one day and declared to the pastor and anyone who would listen that he had demons and wanted to get delivered. As well as the episode in our church that I described above, he challenged various church members essentially to deliver him. A number of the church members took the challenge and invited him into their homes. When they saw he really was demon possessed and they didn't know how to deliver him they gave up lol. He challenged my husband, too, and he wasn't scared of him, but we were young believers at the time. So this man came to our home and we were all sitting in the living room and my husband gets out the Bible. The next thing we knew, a dark cloud formed around this man's face and his whole face looked dark and menacing. I remember I prayed in the Spirit. It was a true manifestation of demon possession that you would have to see to believe. We couldn't help him much as we we new believers ourselves. I just know it was scary, but we weren't afraid since we knew Jesus was greater then any demon. He didn't stay long and left.

An even scarier manifestation of the devil I witnessed on another occession, occured at the end of a Full Gospel Businessmens meeting we attended years ago. The meeting was almost over, but it had been brought to the guest speaker's attention that a man said he was demon possessed and wanted deliverance. The guest speaker asked the attendees to stand around this man and sing "The Blood of Jesus" and pray. Everyone in the room, and I could tell many were afraid, held hands and just kept singing the chorus over and over again and pleading the blood of Jesus while praying for this man. Then, right before our eyes, we saw something that probably none of us had ever seen before. The man fell on the floor and began makes fierce sounds like a wolf growling, he was foaming at the mouth, and then, if this was not bad enough,  he began to take on the form/movements of a snake writhing along the floor. This was so realistic looking he actually appeared snake-like and til this day is the scarriest manisfestion of demon possession I have ever seen. I definately have never forgotten it. I don't know what else the guest speaker minstered to him that night, but the result was he came out of it like someone coming out of a trance or something and was in his right mind after that. Whether the deliverance lasted or he needed more ministry after that I never found out.  I was impressed that night that the guest speaker was not afraid and had jumped right in there to deliver the man. I think he was partly winging it lol, but at least he stood in there and got results.

On another occassion, my brother in law came to my home unexpectantly one afternoon high on drugs and acting like a maniac.  I did all I could think of to take authority over the demons and cast them  out with his wife standing by looking on. In this instance, too, he came down and looked like whatever he had taken control of him had worn off and came back to his right mind.

These experiences happened many years ago and I haven't had any demon confrontations since. But I have encountered a number of ppl who despite not having physical manifestations of demonic possession, seem very demon possessed to me. They are usually very controlling types who make life miserable for their families. They  usually say they are blocked from turning to God and really living for him. They also seem to be very immature and highly resentful types. One such person told me he hears demons talking to him - they fly around his head with their voices speaking to him. He said if he tries to read the Bible or get involved in spiritual things they always block him. Usually these types are very popular with others outside the family who mistakenly think they are nice ppl. Only the family knows the real person they are. Has anyone encountered ppl like this? I do think they are possessed. With both types, I think we all need to know how to minister deliverance.

For years I was in charismatic circles which is why I knew who I was in Christ and did not fear demonic attacks. But though I heard many teachings on spiritual warfare and deliverance I didn't see too much real ministry for it.  I feel many of the faith teachers are very accurate in what they teach, but they didn't do enough to impart how to conduct deliverances to us and something was missing as I just didn't see enough ministry going on.  After much seraching to go deeper with God, but coming up empty in areas I most wanted to know, for a time I wondered if it even mattered- let me just witness Jesus to all I can as Heaven is close at hand. But I keep encountering ppl who are very oppressed or possessed so I am returning to the subject of spiritual warfare and deliverance.  I've spoken with a few ppl who have deliverance ministries. Some of what they have told me is very intriguing, but I have yet to meet someone who has put it together for me. In the meantime, I am praying more then ever seeking the Lord on what true deliverance is so when I go out to witness for Him I will be fully equipped. My feeling is this is not a big deal, that all believers should know how to minister deliverance, it is definitely needed and I'm still trying to crack the answer as to why even those with healing and deliverance ministries are not more of an example of what they teach or discipling believers to walk in deliverance.  Has anyone wondered the same thing?

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 2, 2012 at 7:59am

Nancy,

Well lets start with the net. The devil is alive and well, as the saying goes, on the net. I visit groups both secular and spiritual. It doesn't matter if it is a secular group or a spiritual one, the enemy is there. In secular groups there are both Christian and non-Christian members. I have experienced attacks on my faith and it is not the true Christians that attack me, but the fake ones, the type that have Churchianity. It's interesting that they say nasty, hateful lies while at the same time claiming to be fellow believers. It's obvious they have a religious spirit and don't know God. I always stand up to such ppl either with words back to them or prayer. Sometimes the Spirit leads me to just let it go yet pray as these ppl have time waster demons so to speak for lack of a better name. I also don't like to allow them to disrupt  groups with their nonsence. Often the true believers in these group write me privately and tell me they saw exactly what the possed person said and how the person attemped to liable me.  The believers usually don't take up for me in the group discussion as they nevertheless are too afraid and don't want to be the person's next target. But lately, I have had a few brave believers defend me right in the group discussion. I feel that anyone who attacks a member, I say attack because it is very obvious that it is a spiritual attack, should be let go immediately. I mean I think there should be rules in place that there is zero tolerance for such behavior. But in some of the groups I am in the moderators are slow to action if at all. I am in other secular groups that do have the zero tolerance policy. It is always nice to see that even non-Christian moderators have the sense to know when inappropriate behavior is going on with one member attacking another. The net is quite a playground for satan and his demons as it is so easy for possessed ppl to take swipes at godly or honest ppl who would never treat someone like that since they don't show their face and can get away with it.  I think satan probably thinks the net is the best thing that has ever come along for his evil devices as he gets away with murder on the net-the assasination of believers' character. I have noticed that the attackers always threaten to leave the group, but they almost never follow through on their threats- give it a little time and they'll be right back. It is one thing when this type of behavior goes on in secular groups, but I find it even sadder when it goes on in Christian groups. In either case I always pray forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Most of the time, but not always, the offenders are pleasant and friendly for a time, but before long they are right back to their false accusations. The Bible says that satan is the accuser of the bretheran, so where else do these tantrums and attacks come from but him? Though it is annoying when someone starts attacking, I have learned to take it with a grain of salt as I know I didn't cause the attack and any true believer will come to my defense. Always the attacker starts in with a judgement that I ( or whomever) said this or that against them when they just misunderstood our words or there was a  miscommunication because we are all so different, different backgrounds, different ways of communication, different beliefs etc. The attacker never asks for confirmation of what he misundertood as ppl do when they truly communicate- just assumes he was slighted and refuses to communicate. In other cases, the attacker knows exactly what he is doing as he/she is satan's puppet to slander and defame others. Thank goodness I don't experience this everyday on the net, but it seems that once an indcident has almost gone away, there comes satan with another attack, or sneak attack, out of the clear blue sky. Its like he loves to keep us off balance. Just imagine if we thought like him we would use every strategy to disable our opponent. He is an expert at evil and all he needs are willing participants. Believers should never ever forget for a moment that he is evil personified and that he will never let up til the day we die. To ignore the reality of satan and his demons is extremely foolish. He/they are not just a little evil, they are beyond evil and just because they are not attacking us on the net or off one day doesn't mean they are not geared to attack as soon as we put them out of our minds for a moment. When we see the hideous assualts that are committed against the most innocent and helpless of  society, we must realize the enemy is insanely evil and would rob our salvation if he could. He invades every iota of life and we can never for a second discount his presence. But we can take heart that God is our protector and defender and brings good out of every situation.

 

Now,  as far as attacks in everyday life off the net, I think I noticed even before I ever became a believer that ppl said hateful things or made false accusations designed to cut others down. One can't help notice it because its everywhere we go. We're in a store and we ask the clerk a question or on the phone asking about a service or information about a product, our teacher at school or the librarian acts like satan incarnate. Everywhere we go,  someone is curt or rude and trys to turn things around like we attacked them first, or they try to make us look stupid. The evil in the world is just astronomical. Until we know who we are in Christ, we think we have said or done something wrong as these attackers are so convincing. I have encountered ppl who are so evil, I couldn't even begin to think like they think. It isn't until after we become believers and get in the Word that we realize the spiritual warfare that goes on constantly all around us. Even some of our own family members become a source for evil against us. I guess this is one reason most believers give up, because like I've said before,  being in Christ is not for wimps- it is a fierce spiritual battle to the very end. And if things aren't bad enough, even some of  our own brethern, or so we thought, turn against us. When I was first saved I was so excited to become part of the family of God. I was totally naive to the spiritual sorcery and illegtimate authority that goes on in many, if n0t most churches. I thought the wolves in sheeps clothing I read about in my first Bible were ppl outside the church. Little did I know that this verse refers to wolves in the church as well sitting on the bench right next to us each Sunday.  So, Nancy, you are not imagining things as we all experience this the first years of our Christian walk until we  get deeper into the Word and our discernment grows. This is Christianity 101- we must learn to become discerning and to always be aware of the devil's devices. I so often hear other so called believers or baby believers talking about how we must love ppl to God and of course that is true- love is the only force greater then evil. But if we are loving ppl with our eyes closed to the devil and his devices, we are not really loving others as the Bible says to love. As always, there is a balance and wet get many chances to figure things out so we can truly walk in love and not be decieved.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 2, 2012 at 9:14am

If I may interject within this conversation, I would like to ask you, Jane, if it is possible that someone guilty of the things you have outlined in most of this reply and especially in the following words:

I have noticed that the attackers always threaten to leave the group, but they almost never follow through on their threats- give it a little time and they'll be right back. It is one thing when this type of behavior goes on in secular groups, but I find it even sadder when it goes on in Christian groups. In either case I always pray forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Most of the time, but not always, the offenders are pleasant and friendly for a time, but before long they are right back to their false accusations. The Bible says that satan is the accuser of the bretheran, so where else do these tantrums and attacks come from but him? Though it is annoying when someone starts attacking, I have learned to take it with a grain of salt as I know I didn't cause the attack and any true believer will come to my defense. Always the attacker starts in with a judgement that I ( or whomever) said this or that against them when they just misunderstood our words or there was a miscommunication because we are all so different, different backgrounds, different ways of communication, different beliefs etc. The attacker never asks for confirmation of what he misundertood as ppl do when they truly communicate- just assumes he was slighted and refuses to communicate. In other cases, the attacker knows exactly what he is doing as he/she is satan's puppet to slander and defame others.

...is it possible that this person is not demon possessed but simply oppressed or perhaps even acting out of their emotions in the flesh since we are all prone to still sin? In the case of oppression, when God handed Job over to satan, we know that Job was righteous and Job did learn from his experiences but also what happened to Job was to teach  satan a lesson, because we must remember that satan is not all-knowing either and did not really know what Job's response was going to be for going through all of that suffering. Yet, God knew.

I long for the day when love will prevail.

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 2, 2012 at 12:39pm

Yes, Amanda, and sorry I did not come full circle with what I said.  I didn't mean to give the impression that everyone who acts out on the net or elsewhere is possessed, just the very worst cases are. I was mainly replying to Nancy's question that she is not imagining it that " malevolent spirits and extremely mischeivious spirits over the internet" are a reality.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 2, 2012 at 9:16am

Jane,

 

I would like to respond to your comments with some points of clarity from AAG’s perspective regarding dealing with people on TheNET and spiritual attacks. These comments are not directed at you, but you have given me an opportunity to explain a little about where we come from and how we respond, etc …

 

TheNET was created to be a place where believers, seekers and non-believers can came and seek answers to many of life’s questions and especially regarding Jesus and the Bible. People come from all over the world and thus we are a community that has people from various cultures and with that comes differences in how people interact to a degree. Our goal is to help people n their spiritual journey, thus we attempt to reach out to people when they display poor behavior and especially when they are abusive. I think that we are long-suffering in an attempt to help the person rather than simply discarding them. There is a limit and we have had to suspend numerous people over the years. If those who were suspended come and ask to be reinstated and there is a positive dialogue we will give them another chance. The exception to this rule is people who present themselves as teachers. We deal with them differently. In any community there will be some strife. Whether we interact online, with family, in church or at work we will experience times of strife. Redeemed man still battles the sinful flesh and often fails to act in accordance with the way Jesus would have us act. One day we will be perfect, but for now we are being perfected.

 

When we think about spiritual attacks we need to differentiate between spiritual attacks and simply poor behavior on behalf of the fallen human race. There is not a demon behind every issue or strife. We, because we are selfish beings, make bad decisions at times without any input from the enemy. He and his horde are real beings, but we need to be careful to not give him credit for all bad things that happen to us or for the bad behavior expressed towards us. The Bible tells us that unregenerate man is not prone toward the things of God and cannot be because of the sinful nature. We know that man’s heart is dark without God. Thus, when we are looking at problems we must attempt to identify the origin. Some problems come about because of our bad choices, some because of man’s bad choices and some because of the enemy.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 2, 2012 at 10:01am

Nancy,

 

I don't know that I would use the term "bad spirit" but acknowledge that all people are born with the sinful nature apart from God in a fallen world. some appear more prone to wicked acts than others. Does that mean they have a bad spiit while others have a spirit that is not as bad? The hope of any person is Jesus Christ and being born-again through Him so that we receive a new heart (spirit), yet we still live in the fallen flesh. Thus, even the born-again may do foolish things.

 

We have the lost and the saved. Within these two groups there are subgroups. There are some who are lost and demonically possessed. There are those who are lost and desire nothing but evil. There are some who act with some sense of morality and others who are seeking. Within the saved group we find people at various levels of maturity and each of those come from different backgrounds with various baggage to deal with. Thus, healing and maturing is what is most often needed. That coupled with love and patience from the community of believers.

 

I am not sure I addressed all you asked, but will top there for now.

 

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on January 2, 2012 at 1:09pm

Thanks LT,

Agree with your post 100% and like I told Amanda,  my remarks were for Nancy re demonic spirits that inhabit the net and elsewhere. That's why I did not bring it full circle at the time, so I am glad we all could talk this out and I can clarify it wasn't as some took it. I also believe that re net groups, I, too, believe in giving ppl the benefit of the doubt that I didn't understand them or they didn't understand me. I didn't mean to give ppl the axe without giving them the chance to explain themselves, but then like you said, it becomes very apparent when I person is in a group purely to disrupt and then action must be taken. I welcome opposing points of view to anything I say, because if a group is an honest or godly group that espouses true communication, the truth of a matter always comes out. As you know, we have ppl in this group from many different backgrounds and belief systems, so it stands to reason that not everyone will agree with everything and could easily feel slighted when no slight was intended. But I believe with true love and communication, ppl can have very different beliefs but still show love and respect to each other.  Even you and I have some differing beliefs, but in any communication I have ever had with you thus far, you have been a total gentleman. I respect you for that, because you have made me feel respected.

God Bless!

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 2, 2012 at 1:52pm

Jane,

 

I figured that was where you were coming from, but also appreciate you clarifying. Your comment gave me a good opportunity to put out there where AAG is coming from on this subject. It is good when the brethren, family of God, can speak in love and respect ... even when they disagree in some areas :-)

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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