Something to ponder #2: What, if any, are the differences between the Old and New Covenant?

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 8, 2014 at 6:53pm

What of those who just view the list as what is required? They also believe God has given them everything they need to meet those requirements.

This question still speaks to motive. Is what I am doing for the purpose of pleasing or appeasing. If it is required to be saved then it is still appeasing. One can say that appeasing God pleases them, but how can we appease God when the appeasement was Jesus' work on the cross.

What are the right things regarding Jesus that we must believe in order to have belief in the right Jesus?

In witnessing I have seen a person come under conviction from reading one verse and have seen others that took years before they were convicted regarding the person and work of Christ. Thus, I cannot say what we "must" believe beyond the basic gospel, but we can say that there are some things that cannot be believed. For in the end we do not trust simply in the name of Jesus, but rather in the one Whom that name represents.

Does it really even matter what we believe about our works, whether works save us or keep us saved?

Let me rephrase your question and you tell me. Does it matter whether I am trusting in Jesus for my salvation or trusting in myself?

As long as we believe in God and are doing good works, then our doctrine can be all messed up but does it matter?

Again I will rephrase the question. Could a person have some wrong doctrine and still be saved? I hope so since not one of us IMO have all the doctrine right. Could we be saved and change along the way? I hope so or I am in trouble. Over the years my views on many subjects have shifted. I once thought you could lose your salvation, but now do not. I have held most views on the rapture at one time or another. I have leaned more Armenian at one time and now lean more Calvinist (but not fully there). I was taught the Bible was a history book written by man and is full of exaggerations, but now am sold out that it is God's Word.

Some things that will never shift (settled in my heart):
The Word of God is God's Word wholly true and wholly trustworthy.

God is sovereign

Jesus is the living God in flesh, complete man and complete God.

Jesus died on the cross shedding His blood for my sin. He was buried and rose again three days later. He sits at the right hand of the Father and is coming back some day soon.

We are saved by grace through faith, not by works and are created for good works.

These are but a few.

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 9, 2014 at 5:37pm

What of those who don't believe Jesus is our Substitute but that Jesus is only our representative? They don't see His death as a payment for their sins or as appeasing God at all, and they see Him as only of human nature with God in Him. They strive to copy Jesus and don't believe Christ died instead of us. To them, the idea of substitution is a false teaching and the easy way out, but as our representative, we must commit to baptism into His death and resurrection and live a life of cross-carrying because he died to sin, and we must die to sin, too, for Christ only made it possible for us to die to sin, and Christ didn't die in our place. 

Was Jesus both our representative and our substitute?

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 9, 2014 at 7:53pm

Was Jesus both our representative and our substitute?

The answer depends on what is meant by representative, but in essence the answer is yes.

What of those who don't believe Jesus is our Substitute but that Jesus is only our representative? ... for Christ only made it possible for us to die to sin, and Christ didn't die in our place. 

If He is not our substitute then the shedding of His innocent blood would be of no value. I do not believe that we can get around the truth that Christ died for me and paid for my sin, for apart from His sacrifice, which includes the shedding of His blood, there can be no true forgiveness that brings about regeneration. Repentance is not just one turning from sin, but begins with a change of mind. This change of mind includes the illumination regarding Jesus, His work, our sin and our great need that only He can meet. It is when the mind has been changed and these truths revealed that one can even attempt to turn from sin and turn to God.

Thus, a belief that Jesus was a good man, teacher or prophet is incomplete. A belief that only includes He was God in flesh falls short. The gospel is about our great need, His perfect sacrifice and the fact that He rose again in the resurrected body. If we attempt to find a way around Jesus to be saved we are no better than the thief who attempts to climb over the wall instead of entering in through the gate ... and the gate is Jesus.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 9, 2014 at 10:14pm

You said:

"Some things that will never shift (settled in my heart):
The Word of God is God's Word wholly true and wholly trustworthy.
God is sovereign
Jesus is the living God in flesh, complete man and complete God.
Jesus died on the cross shedding His blood for my sin. He was buried and rose again three days later. He sits at the right hand of the Father and is coming back some day soon.
We are saved by grace through faith, not by works and are created for good works."

Will you explain why it's important to believe not only that Jesus is fully man and fully God now, but that He was complete man and complete God during His life on earth?

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 10, 2014 at 11:52am

I do not believe there is a real difference in the two statements (depending on who is saying them). I choose complete God and complete man for clarity since our minds are often mathematically driven. Because of this math view we struggle to think in terms that a single unit (no disrespect meant to Jesus, but to the point being made) can be full of two things. Our minds tend to think of Hercules and see a half-god and half-man which is not accurate when describing Jesus. Thus, for me, the idea that Jesus (one being) is complete God and complete man at the same time. That is my rationale for using the term.

Now, as to why it is important to believe that He is complete/full God and complete/full man while He was on earth speaks to two important points. If He were simply a man, and not God, He would have been plagued with the sin nature and incapable of living a perfect life that was void of sin. If He were simply God, and not human flesh (not just a covering, but who He was) He would not be the perfect sacrifice, for He had to shed His blood and God, Who is Spirit, does not have flesh and blood like us. Only when Jesus joined the two, God and man, could the perfect life be lived and the perfect sacrifice be offered. This perfect life that enabled the perfect sacrifice was what God required, and no created man could have accomplished this act.

Permalink Reply by JB on April 11, 2014 at 4:41am

I’m sorry, but I don’t have time this morning to respond to this correctly, but what do we do, or think about this scripture in?   Hebrews 4:14-16 (KJV)
 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.  

JB

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Permalink Reply by Seek on April 14, 2014 at 6:38am

I think that the only difference is that Jesus became our permanent sacrifice so that there is no more need for continual sacrifices and put the laws inside us so we want to obey rather than try to obey on our own merit, in which we always fail. 

Aside from that, God never changes.  So when He detested the sins of the Israelites and their turning from Him constantly and chastising them, He does so even still.  Their time in the wilderness is, I believe, a reference to us today as we go through hardships to transform us into His image, to see if we will obey and remain steadfast.  But through Christ, we no longer have to "earn" righteousness but are made righteous through faith.  Which is also why Abraham was counted as righteous, because of His faith. 

And it leads me to also think on doubts and unbelief.  Hebrews 11:11 says "And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise."

Yet Sarah had doubts as evidence by her dealings with Hagar.  As well as Abraham who went along with it.  So having doubt isn't the same as having no faith.  But the Israelites didn't doubt so much as they kept turning away because of the hardships.  Many go through hardships and don't turn away despite the turmoil.  But those who do may find God chastising them, as He chastises those whom He loves. 

I believe God's anger is mitigated however because of the blood of Christ upon us.  While He detests sin, He does recognize that we're imperfect but that we do have faith and have accepted Christ and is patient in working with us.  But then He was patient with the Israelites or He would not have spent 40 years wooing them.

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