Should I be scared of Hebrews Chapters 6 and 10?

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on June 22, 2013 at 5:59am

Amen Roy

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on June 18, 2013 at 3:51pm

Gregory,

I say this with some caution on my part as I do not want to offend or hurt you, but we need to be careful about seeking out so many different teachers and their varied views. It will leave most people in a state of confusion because at some point all these views will begin to blend and meld together in one's mind leaving them unsure about anything. Some think they can get all this info in and then make a decision ... it is a rare individual who can do this. Instead of studying these various pastors I would encourage the following. 1) Study the Word primarily and use the teachings of man secondarily and always evaluate it light of the Word. 2) Determine what you believe regarding hermeneutics. If a person thinks the Bible is a Word about God they will gravitate toward liberal teachers. If one thinks that the Bible is THE Word of God one will gravitate toward fundamentalist teachings. It is hard for a liberal to listen to a fundamentalists and agree and vise-a-versa. 3) Our current environment allows us access to thousands of people who profess to teach. Before spending valuable time listening/reading an individual or ministry find out something about them.

 

Now, here is the problem, and I am not bashing you, but want you to think. Over the last several weeks you have tossed out quite a few videos or web sites asking what everyone thinks of this. Most of us do not have time to examine all of this extra stuff (like hour plus videos from someone I have never heard of). Time is precious and I recognize you are on a quest to find truth but appear to be taking a shotgun approach to it instead of focusing in. I recognize most of your questions relate to your one major concern, but you are all over the board in your search ... this will leave you more confused than in the beginning. I will give you an example from my life. It is difficult for me and a liberal to really communicate. We speak different languages even though we speak English. A few years ago I was in discussion with a guy that looked at the Bible as purely allegoric. After about a month of back and forth it was evident that we would not connect on most topics because we see the Word of God so differently and we ended up just ceasing to discuss things and this person chose to leave since AAG is not a liberal site.

 

I hope that helps in the spirit I intended and does not offend. Thus, nail down a few things and then focus your research. I believe that will help you. By no means am I telling you what to do or suggesting that you stop posting, etc. My comments are purely motivated to offer help, but feel free to reject them.

 

Note: my comments have nothing to do with the current videos in the forum, but am speaking to the larger picture of various "teachers" who are out there.

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Seek on June 19, 2013 at 6:32am

we need to be careful about seeking out so many different teachers and their varied views. It will leave most people in a state of confusion because at some point all these views will begin to blend and meld together in one's mind leaving them unsure about anything.

Hammer meet nail. 

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on June 19, 2013 at 7:27am

Amen.

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on June 22, 2013 at 5:44am

Gregor, i watched about 5 minutes of this and I would prefer to deal with your question and with scripture than with discussing his interpretation. Many take Hebrews out of context. Completely. Therefore they miss the point. Completely. I know that will offend some. But, it's the truth. 

You need to understand 3 crucial things about the Book of Hebrews, before you try to pin meaning to these two passages.

1 - it was written TO THE FIRST CENTURY HEBREWS. Meaning: the folks we know of as "Jews", the people of the Old Covenant, the people to whom Christ came in flesh.

2 - it was written about their nation's rejection of Christ. Go read the first 3 chapters and you will get this clearly.

3 - it was written while the temple still stood and the animal sacrifices were still being offered. This is very important to understand. 

The issue at hand for the people receiving this letter was that many had chosen to follow Christ, to take his yoke and be named as his follower; yet some among them were turning back and choosing to reject the sufficiency of his sacrifice as atonement for our sins. It led to a question: can we do both? Can we still be part of the culture and do the rituals of the old covenant, while still claiming to believe in a risen Savior? So, in this letter you must distinguish between two concepts: a) Sin and b) sins. 

The Sin is to reject Christ as sufficient for our salvation. It is the Sin of Unbelief. This is in contrast to the sins we commit as fallen creatures living in sinful flesh. In other words, the Sin of unbelief is the matter at hand. It is why Jesus condemned the Scribes and Pharisees - they knew He came by the authority of scripture but they refused to accept and believe. 

You see, salvation is not OF you. Salvation is OF Christ. The truth is that on the day you received Christ as savior, you sinned before you put your head to the pillow. This line of thinking that you must (or can) live in a perfect sinless state, is ludicrous. Go read the book of Romans and carefully read chapters 6, 7 and 8 where Paul, the great apostle who was chosen to be the light to the gentiles, admits that he struggles with sins on a daily basis.

The book of Hebrews is not saying that you must live free from all sins. It is saying you must not commit the Sin of unbelief. You see, you cannot be saved if you do not believe. Even under the old covenant, it was never expected that you would live free from all sin - there were remedies for sin. 

Now, the crucial point in Hebrews 6 is in the 6th verse; that little word "if". Let's remember that this book was written to whom? Hebrews. People who sat in synagogue every Sabbath and listened to Rabbi's. This is another vital point to understand: because Rabbis from long before Jesus and until now use a teaching method called "rhetoric". Jesus himself used it, but we tend to call it "hyperbole" when referring to Jesus.

But understanding Rabbinical rhetoric is very important. It goes to that concept of "IF" (not when). Remember that Paul the apostle was what? A Rabbi. He was a Pharisee, trained in the best Rabbinical school of that day. That school was renown for being a school that taught rhetorically. Paul knew this and when he wrote the letter to the Hebrews, he used Rabbinical Rhetoric as a way to get their attention. 

Hebrews is saying "if you Hebrew (people of the Covenant and the Bible) come to know that Christ truly is the son of God and that He has atoned for your sins, but you choose to go back to the Old Covenant and offer lambs and goats, you have offended God and Christ" 

But you see, the very next verses in Chapter 6:9 says "we are confident of better things for you..." You see, to do what chapter 6 is suggesting, you would have to make a conscious decision to reject Christ as savior. I'm willing to bet that you would never do that. You probably, like myself and like Paul the Apostle (this is the only way I'll compare myself to him), "do those things that you would not and do not that which you should do". But, when you do that, you probably suffer from great conviction and repent seeking God's healing of your soul. 

So, wait, should we go ahead and willingly sin? No. Of course not. No more than you should willingly hit your own face with a hammer. Both cause pain and suffering and make you look foolish. But, if you hit your face with a hammer, Jesus already forgave your sin at Calvary. 

How can I be confident of this? Moses was a murderer. David was a lying, adulterous murderer. Peter was a betrayer who denied Christ. All three were not just forgiven, but restored and empowered to serve the Kingdom. The heart of Hebrews is the difference between Peter and Judas. Judas betrayed Jesus and was sorrowful - but he never believed. That is why he hung himself before the resurrection. Peter was a believer who failed. That is why he did not kill himself and did not leave the group. He was ashamed, but he was also compelled to wait for Sunday. He had hope, because he really did believe - even though it was ridiculous. 

You and I can never be good enough to keep ourselves from sinning. But we can, by the power of the Holy Spirit's revelation to us, have faith in Christ and because of that we are not "in Sin". 

Either Christ is sufficient or he is not Christ. He has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, of love and a sound mind. 

Remember what John 2:1-3 says "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on June 22, 2013 at 7:41am

Excellent teaching, Scribe. Through Christ we can rest. Our relationship with God as a new born child is much like a infant. There are things that we will begin to do naturally since we are a child. As a child learns to walk by first crawling, pulling himself up on a chair, etc., we will learn to begin to walk in the Spirit. Sometimes we become impatient and want to get up and run sprints while we are still learning to crawl. We want to immediately be able to overcome all of our sin. Some sins will take a lifetime to overcome. Our relationship with God is not based on how successful we have become in walking, running or even if we are still crawling. Our righteousness is based totally on the success of Jesus Who was completely successful. We don't know how He did it but we believe that He did. We believe He was perfect in righteousness and that perfection is credited to us. We fix  our eyes on Him and not on ourselves. If we fix our eyes on ourselves we will become so discouraged that we will sometimes just want to give it all up. As we become more successful at fixing our eyes on Him, the walk becomes easier. We find ourselves doing things we never thought possible. 

A parent can understand the feeling of the father as he watches his son try to walk. He holds out  his arms and waits for his son to stumble towards him. It is a glorious experience. Think how much more the Father reaches out for us and is so proud of us when we stumble towards Him. His love for us in not measurable. When we become His child, everything changes. He sees us differently than He sees the rest of the world. Hell will never be the punishment for the child of God that falls. 

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on June 22, 2013 at 10:27am

Scribe,

Good word.

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on June 22, 2013 at 2:22pm

Scribe -

 

It is always good to hear from you. Blessings my brother.

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