Seeker Sensitive or Seeker Friendly

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Permalink Reply by Seek on September 17, 2014 at 6:00am

This is along the lines of what I was responding to watchman about being uncomfortable in church.  I think the uncomfortable are the ones who are not the elect.  Maybe I'm wrong, I hope so.  Cause I know quite a few who have been so "uncomfortable" with church they come and go and come and go, but they never stay.  And I think of 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I think those that should have the yellow stripe are those who will be wanting to go to church and hear the Word, wanting to know how to be saved, those who have become uncomfortable with their sin, and not with the Word.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on September 17, 2014 at 6:09am

My view is a little different. There are some who really are true believers but who aren't attending church regularly, for various reasons, perhaps having been hurt in a congregation, or unable to find a new congregation due to the doctrine being taught, or having an illness that keeps them home bound, etcetera. There are also those who go everytime the door is open, and IMO it's safe to say not all of them are born again. Do we show all people who are in church the same kind of love and hospitality when all are professing to be Christians? For those who say they aren't saved but who are coming to church, do we treat some "seekers" differently than other "seekers"?

Permalink Reply by Seek on September 17, 2014 at 6:21am

We show love and hospitality to everyone.  What I'm referring to though is that a true believer is not going to be uncomfortable with the Word.  They'll be uncomfortable with how they behave, or maybe as those hurt in the church, uncomfortable with other people or with certain groups of people, but not uncomfortable with God's Word.  Any discomfort a believer feels towards scripture is towards the conviction of how they're not living up to it, but not with the scripture itself.  They will be in agreement with the scripture and know they need to improve in that area and want to improve.

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on September 16, 2014 at 8:16pm

I'm going to admit some ignorance here...what is Arminian, semi-pelagian? 

And what are you, if you are not one of these two?  

Is there a difference between true believers and are they one of these or none of these?  

I will admit I've done some reading on Calvinism, because there are those who believe that you do nothing in your lifetime...God will do it all.  You just sit passively and no matter how you live you will be saved.  I don't mean to get on these subjects but I am just not understanding...the Bible doesn't talk about all these different beliefs, it only talks about one belief and that is in the Lord Jesus Christ.  

Permalink Reply by Amanda on September 17, 2014 at 4:43am

They are just terms used in discussing theology.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on September 17, 2014 at 5:05am

Theology is a word that "comes from two Greek words that combined mean 'the study of God'"
http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-theology.html

The word "doctrine" appears in Scripture, and the Scriptures themselves are doctrine. https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=doctrine&versi...

When we discuss Scriptures, we are discussing doctrine and to study the Scriptures is to be a disciple, to study and learn.

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on September 17, 2014 at 5:52am

I know what theology & doctrine  means lol....just didn't understand what Arminian, semi-pelagian mean.  Anyhow, I will look them up.  

Permalink Reply by Seek on September 17, 2014 at 6:16am

I don't understand Arminian, semi (or fully) pelagian, theology, or doctrine mean.  Even though Amanda and others have tried explaining them to me many times.  I'm not college edumacated, though I did take some courses (and forgot all I learned).  I'm just a poor simple gal going through life.  I leave theology and doctrine discussions to those who have time to read massive texts and the brain capacity to understand the difference.  I just read it as I see it and figure God's gonna sort it out.  LOL

Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 17, 2014 at 7:32am

Watchman,

You said:

I will admit I've done some reading on Calvinism, because there are those who believe that you do nothing in your lifetime...God will do it all.  You just sit passively and no matter how you live you will be saved. 

Actually, that is not what Calvinism believes. They do believe that Christ has fulfilled all God's demands for perfection. Once completed, He died as a sacrifice for the sins of all those who come to believe in Him through the message of the Gospel. They believe that there is nothing for us to add to the work of salvation. Some do believe that once you are saved, you are given eternal life which can never be taken away from you. However, in a recent forum, you posted an article that quoted some Calvinists that add the necessity of obedience. 

Whether or not obedience is necessary unto salvation is not the subject of this forum. We do disagree on that one. However, I don't know of one Calvinist that thinks that you can just sit passively and do nothing. We believe that God disciplines those He loves and one way or the other His people will work. But, as far as salvation goes, we do believe that God has done it all. (I must admit that your article on lorship salvation did take me back a little.) I appreciate you posting that. I am still considering what some of those guys had to say. However, I must admit that I still am convinced that God will not kick out one of His rebellious sons. However, I don't recommend rebellion to anyone. I think God is capable of beating us to death. I am not passive in my relationship with God. God might just be a little bit abusive in His discipline. I am convinced it is all in love. He loves His children enough to live a perfect life for them and then die for them. (He actually got beat to death). A passive Christian is facing some serious consequences. You and I do agree on that one. 

There are basically five points of Calvinism that pretty much spell out the difference between what Calvinists believe and what Arminians believe. You fall into the camp of an Arminian. Almost all my friends and fellow believers are Arminians. However, Calvinists are not bad people and don't think we can have a passive relationship with God. We know that if we are passive, trouble is headed our way. You will find people in both camps that are passive in their relationship with Christ. I consider a lot of the Arminians I know a little bit too passive in their relationship with God. That issue has little to do with whether one is an Arminian or a Calvinist. 

You and I are in agreement with your last statement that the only real belief that counts is our faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. 

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 17, 2014 at 9:08am

My brother Roy -

It is good to read your writings. Much love to you beloved.

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on September 17, 2014 at 12:37pm

Thanks Roy

Permalink Reply by Seek on September 17, 2014 at 5:56am

Had never heard of seeker sensitive or seeker friendly until this thread.  Thanks for the Got Questions links Amanda.  Now I got answers.  I guess I don't see a lot of difference between them based on those two articles except that one has completely gone to the "other side" (pardon the pun) and the other is trying to have a bit of both worlds.  As I read seeker sensitive, I could see my own church in parts of it, and yet not completely since our pastor does do the hard hitting sermons.  Especially on Wednesday nights when he knows that those there are those truly there for the sermons.  He says that's when he gives his best sermons.  LOL  He has done harder sermons on Sundays but he also makes note that he's speaking to the saved and offers that anyone not saved has the opportunity to accept Christ right there.  He even will say they can do it in their seats and let's them know we have cards in the pews if they do get saved or are saved and visiting that they can fill out if they just want more information, help with their newfound salvation, or prayers for something.  They can do it anonymously or provide their contact info, however they like. 

They do have the big screens, colored lights, etc.  But they also preach that if you come in with the wrong attitude, that you're not going to like the music or that the temperature is too cold, etc., that you'll leave unsatisfied.  But if you come in to worship, you won't worry about the music and temperature.  They add in some older music at times.  They don't do any rock style type concerts.  It's worshipful but generally upbeat.  Often they just stop the music and the congregation just sings as the praise and worship leader speaks to focus everyone on worshiping God.  Songs like The More I Seek You or I Give Myself Away or Healer...they play those quite frequently and will just stop playing after a bit and we all sing for awhile.

I guess the most where I see it seeker sensitive is when it comes to the kids.  They give a message but do it in a kid understandable style and don't spend much time on satan and hell, and I wonder if it's good or bad...I mean...don't want our kids having nightmares.  They do puppet shows in the 4 to 12 age group with a devil puppet with all the horns and such who seems like a doofus and always ends up on the losing end.  Not being a kid (and not sure I ever want to relive that again LOL), I really can't tell if that's the way to treat it or not.  But I do know I've told Mike several times when he relays the information on the skit that the devil isn't funny and let him know the serious side of it and explain that that's just a play to show that God is bigger and better but that it's not a joking matter in reality and he always says "I know".  I've sat in kid's church a few times with him.  Maybe I need to do some more so I can get a better grasp on what they are teaching. 

Here's an area though where I get concerned.  I have loved our VBS.  The last 5 years, they changed tactics on this and began going all out into a themed VBS and all in one group instead of individual groups.  Yet this years got a bit "riskay"? seemingly.  It was a Pirates theme and there was an island of murmurmen (mermaids), who were always murmuring/complaining.  The murmurmen were of course...men.  Some of the men of our church that you would think wouldn't go for this dressed as mermaids with long wigs and coconut bras and blue fin tails.  Some of the older crowd were turned off by it and this was for the kids but....the kids would come with their parents.  And what I wonder about is....Does a 4 to 12 year old understand the concept of this coconut bra?  Was that a necessary part of the show?

My brother was helping put these together until the last two years.  He's done this at many churches for years.  But he's too busy now to help with ours and so our kids church staff put this one on.  It wasn't nearly as good as what my brother has put together and was more "riskay" than anything he's done. 

Anyhow, all that to say....I dunno.  LOL

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