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Science and the evolution of Christianity - scope for understanding?
The Scopes Trial—formally known as The State of Tennessee v. John Thomas Scopes and informally known as the Scopes Monkey Trial—was a landmark American legal case in 1925 in which high school science teacher, John Scopes, was accused of violating Tennessee's Butler Act which made it unlawful to teach evolution.[1]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Science v Christianity - Certainly seemed to be the case (literally) in the above mentioned Scopes trial - which effectively was about the doctrine of human origin and evolution. Indeed there were two opposing sides - the scientific and Christian communities, at least that was the public view. The Christian community rejected scientists account of evolution claiming it was unbiblical. Science was wrong!
Is science wrong though? I do not believe it is.
It is some of the scientists who are wrong in their speculations. But I also believe that some in the Christian community should not discount evolution - as a process used by God. I've heard many Christians say "I don't believe in evolution", but there are valid scientific claims in Darwin's theory of evolution; some aspects of his theory were/are obviously speculative.
The creation is another issue that seemingly separates science and Christianity - how old is the universe? Is there a designer? Who created God? etc etc
It is not a case of science v Christianity - rather isn't it a case of science for Christianity? There should be scope for understanding between both communities I believe.
After all - science is only revealing what God has created.
Any thoughts on this?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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We come once again to a topic that tends to divide the church instead of unite her. You will have two very passionate camps both believing they are correct. Both will use so-called experts and site various Scripture. Both camps need to recognize that the other loves Jesus too. In the end you will be left with two camps and life goes on.
From my perspective I believe that we are compelled to read Scripture at its simplest understanding in context and according to the literary style it in which was composed. A simple read of Genesis in the original language and weighed against the whole of Scripture leaves us with six natural days of approximately 24 hours in length. We know that the early readers of Scripture by far understood it that way as well. We recognize that modern science appears to say something different. One question to ask is do we believe the account in Genesis that God made a man and breathed life into him? God took the dust and formed Adam and then caused Adam to fall asleep and proceded to remove a rib to create woman? The simple language does not give room for man evolving from dust to a stage that out of man a new gender is derived from him.
Next, if we take the simple reading of God creating Adam from dust and breathing the breath of life into Him as a simple act of creation and not a evolution that waited for man to finally arrive on the scene, we are left to ponder this. If God created Adam as a full grown man in a matter of seconds (give or take) how old would the original Adam look? Would he look 20 or 30? Regardless we know that he did not look like a new born or 5 year old. He was an adult male. If examined one would find his bone structure, etc to be that of a mature man. God created in the account trees and flowers not seeds. He created cattle and birds, but no mention of starting with embryo or eggs. Thus, all of creation was created in an adult state ready for life. I wonder what the earth, and universe, looked like when God created them? Would they resemble a baby universe or an adult universe? Following God's method of populating the earth we find that it is reasonable that the earth was created in an adult stage, not a new born. If examined it would appear to be mature. Yet, we find the remains of dead creatures, etc within the earth. God created man for His good pleasure and the earth was given to man to care for and populate. It is reasonable to understand that God created a fully functioning planet with resources to be used by man as he discovers them in his journey through life. But, why the remains of dead creatures that appear to be old? This is a good question. One may ponder this. Does man trust in the simple reading of God's Word, and therefore trust God, or does he trust in his on knowledge and wisdom to try and explain something that God has already revealed to us, yet, man seeks a different answer ... one derived by man instead of God.
Food for thought,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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LT.
Great post.
Blessings...
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Permalink Reply by Bible-Talk on
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Thanks for sharing LT - I agree that it is another one of those issues about which people have differences of opinion. I think it's always good for people to engage in discussions - at least we can all do that in the right spirit!
I have come across some interesting considerations, as far as the six literal days of creation are concerned, proposed by some believers; here are a couple:
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" Gen 1:14.
This was the fourth day when the sun and the moon were also created - sunrise and sunset ... the advent of a twenty four hour day. There could not have been twenty four hour days at least before the sun was created - a normal (24 hr) day involves sunrise and sunset.
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." Gen 2:2.
God rested from from all his work - but did God rest for just 24 hours?
It may be that the early readers understood the creation account in terms of 24 hour days. Some may have also thought that the earth was at the centre of the universe, and flat? They were surely limited by a lack of scientific understanding that did'nt/don't contradict the scriptures?
It seems that the intended use of the Hebrew word "yom" is the area of contention in understanding the approximate time frame of the creation account.
Which would therefore also apply to the creation of man. On the sixth day God also created man. Here is another example where the interpretation of the Hebrew word "bara" (to create) in the context of "yom" comes into question. How long did it take God to create (man)? If man is "fearfully and wonderfully" made, and is "fashioned" out of clay it makes me think about the complexity of the human body and how much love, planning, care and time was taken over the creation of such a being. I am open to the idea that the amount of time God took to create man could have exceeded twenty four hours. I'm also open to seeing evolution as being stages in the development of life eg from dust to man.
Just a little poser - why did'nt God create everything in one day? Is it simply that He chose not to? I guess only He knows!
The universe, the earth and life on earth are incalculably complex - they are all masterpieces .. and all the work of God.
To God be the glory.
In Christ,
Desmond
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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May I interject here, Desmond? I can't speak for LT but you said:
This was the fourth day when the sun and the moon were also created - sunrise and sunset ... the advent of a twenty four hour day. There could not have been twenty four hour days at least before the sun was created - a normal (24 hr) day involves sunrise and sunset.
Even without the sun or the moon or sunrise and sunset, there could still be a 24 hour period. The sun does not rise or set. It is the rotation of the earth that gives us our night and our day. If the earth stops rotating and stops orbitting, will time stop?
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Yes of course you can Amanda. That is a great point about sunrise and sunset - thanks for pointing it out. The 24 four hour period is the (approximate) time it takes for the earth to rotate around it's axis ,which is universally accepted. There are some things that I find interesting: When God created the earth did he set it in motion (to revolve) before creating the sun? And then did God cause the earth to orbit the sun? Did God create the earth to be still, then create the sun and then set the earth in motion to revolve and to orbit? Or did God create all the heavenly bodies and when complete set everything in motion?
Time belongs to God, and God is eternal.
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Desmond, Lol, you with your questions...remind me...of me!
I have only one simple answer for these you have asked me.
All I know is that Jesus is Ruler over all time and space but He limited Himself to become fully man as well as fully God and He entered our time and our space and He is still with us here.
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Desmond,
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament
of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and
for seasons, and for days, and years:" Gen 1:14.This was the fourth day when the sun and the moon were
also created - sunrise and sunset ... the advent of a twenty four hour day.
There could not have been twenty four hour days at least before the sun was
created - a normal (24 hr) day involves sunrise and sunset.Amanda has touched on this, but I will add a little more. Time was not established by the sun and the moon. God established time and the sun and the moon, which He created. They operate according to God’s will and in tune with His time frame.
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he
had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had
made." Gen 2:2.God rested from from all his work - but did God rest for
just 24 hours?Does God even need to rest? His resting on the seventh day set the standard for man. There are six days for work and one day for resting in Him. This truth is even further understood today when we recognize that Jesus, Himself, is our Sabbath rest.
It may be that the early readers understood the creation
account in terms of 24 hour days. Some may have also thought that the earth was
at the centre of the universe, and flat? They were surely limited by a lack of
scientific understanding that did'nt/don't contradict the scriptures?Does a simple reading of Scripture teach us that the world is flat? Does a simple reading of Scripture teach us that creation took seven days? Hand a Bible to any person in their own language and ask those two questions. If we assume that the knowledge of God is reserved
for the wise then we are arguing against the vast majority of what Scripture teaches about the wise and us being as babes.It seems that the intended use of the Hebrew word
"yom" is the area of contention in understanding the approximate time
frame of the creation account.When Scripture is compared to Scripture one will come to the simple understanding that it is literal days.
Which would therefore also apply to the creation of man.
On the sixth day God also created man. Here is another example where the
interpretation of the Hebrew word “bara” (to create) in the context of “yom”
comes into question. How long did it take God to create (man)? If man is “fearfully
and wonderfully” made, and is “fashioned” out of clay it makes me think about
the complexity of the human body and how much love, planning, care and time was
taken over the creation of such a being. I am open to the idea that the amount
of time God took to create man could have exceeded twenty four hours. I’m also
open to seeing evolution as being stages in the development of life eg from
dust to man.If one’s God required more than a millisecond to create man then their God is too small. The same is true of all creation, yet, God chose to take six days, but was not forced to due to an inability on His part.
Just a little poser - why did'nt God create everything in
one day? Is it simply that He chose not to? I guess only He knows!An opinion. God is an artist and He enjoyed each part as He created it as a completed product on that day..
The universe, the earth and life on earth are
incalculably complex - they are all masterpieces .. and all the work of God.Amen
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1000 years is as to 1 day to the Lors scripture against scripture. Sorry my 2 cents.
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Yes, to the Lord time is irrelevent, but not to man. We were set in time and God set the standard of time for rman to live by.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Yes LT in what you have said lies the answer. And in many questions I often wonder are we seeking God's standard or the standard of man. Our understtanding must come from the Lord not man's logic
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Just a little poser 1 million years in infinity is a day. So according to us and our count we see more where as God and His logic sees less. If you think of infinitey He created it in less than a day. Mathematically a man's average life time into infinity is" 0 ".
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