All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
S.O.A.P. #3
Greetings all,
I will continue to try something on TheNET. I would like to see if we can engage in a Bible study using the forums. I hope to simulate a small group setting, but realize that there will be lag time. Here are the parameters that we will work with ... and this is open to everyone.
1) We are attempting to work our way through the gospel of John.
2) We will not tolerate negative comments made about a person or persons.
3) We are using the S.O.A.P. approach which = Scripture - Observation - Application - Prayer.
... 3a) Scripture text from the Gospel of John using KJV (no copyright attached)
... 3b)Observations about the particular text. What is being said, what is going on, who is involved and what might be the points being made?
... 3c) Application of the text/teaching to our lives today.
... 3d) Prayer pertaining to that which we have sought to discern.
4) It is appropriate to ask questions along the way.
5) I operating as the facilitator and teacher of this online group/class, but want the open participation of others.
6) At the end of each week (Friday's) I will close the current one and start a new one.
This Week's Scripture to discuss:
Joh 2:1-11 KJV And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: (2) And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. (3) And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. (4) Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (5) His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. (6) And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (7) Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. (8) And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. (9) When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, (10) And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. (11) This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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It's interesting that Mary already knew what He could do and had faith he would do it, and that the servants did not even question her command to do what He said. I once saw another point made on this particular piece though. It noted how Jesus involved the servants. He could have just made wine appear from nothing but He involved the servants in the process so that they would believe even moreso in something they took part in.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Seek,
The servants were accustomed to doing what they were told. While at the same time the Bible does not reveal what they may have thought or said to one another regarding this task.
I am not sure how much Mary knew, but it is clear she knew He had the ability to overcome the problem.
It is possible that He involved them for the reason you put forth. I think it is more plausible that involving the servants also gives us another principle. Though Jesus is more than capable of working independent of man, He has chosen to work primarily through man. Does God need the children of God to effectively spread the gospel? Of course not. Yet, He has chosen this method. He choses to involve man in His ministry of reconciling the world. This principle is seen again in the feeding of the multitudes. Jesus takes what little they have, uses the disciples to distribute and everyone is fed with more leftover than they began with. Again, this goes back to some of the points I attempted to make in my response to Richard below.
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Regarding feeding the multitudes, I received my devotion from Our Prayer this morning that is interesting....
What Prayer Can Do: A Lesson in Multiplication
The prayer of two volunteers, to distribute food to more people, is quickly answered.
By Lisa Beech, Colorado Springs, Colorado
Last year I joined San Francisco’s City Impact, a nondenominational group doing outreach to inner-city residents. This was my first day visiting a public housing complex. The leader put me and another newbie in charge of handing out groceries.
My partner and I agreed we had the best job. Who didn’t love food, especially when they couldn’t afford much of it?
“Not everyone will need some,” our leader reminded us. “We’re also just here to talk, check in with people, pray with them if they want. It’s about showing our love.”
The people on our assigned floors seemed happy to see us and our big box of supplies when we knocked–all except one. “I have company,” he said. “Sorry. I have to go.”
He shut the door before we’d even had time to offer him anything. Which might have been for the best. Our box was almost empty. “We’re going to run out of food!” I said. “We must be giving people too much.”
My partner and I looked at each other in alarm. Had we messed everything up? We had a whole floor of apartments left to visit! Lord, I said silently, you fed the five thousand. Could you multiply this food the way you did the loaves and the fishes?
“I asked God to multiply the food,” I whispered to my partner.
“Me too!” he whispered back.
Visit by visit our supplies dwindled. We still had quite a few apartments left when I checked the box again: one lime and a can of soup. Soon those were gone. “We’ll have to tell people we ran out,” I said. “We really miscalculated.” No way is God going to bail us out, I told myself miserably.
Just then someone came running down the hall. It was the impatient man from the floor above. His arms were full of groceries: cereal and cans of soup. “Here,” he said, putting them in the box. “Thought some of the other residents could use them. I’ve got plenty this month. Gotta run!”
We had just enough for the apartments we still had left to visit. God had multiplied our groceries–and multiplied our faith too.
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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LT,
You know, Bro, this passage could turn out to be.......kinda like a hornets' nest. With Jesus making "good wine" for the folks, first miracle, and all........
Were Jesus and His disciples included in those who wanted wine (verse 3)?
Grace and Peace to all.
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:-P Well you know those Pentecostals only serve grape juice during communion. LOL
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I don't know any, except maybe Catholics, that serve anything but grape juice.
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Richard,
To your specific question the Word of God does not give the answer. What we do know is that it was not against the law to drink wine, nor against the teaching of Scripture. We also know that there is a clear teaching regarding getting drunk.
I always appreciate the fact that God brings us His Word in a straight forward manner. If man were to have written it and desired to convince people (cognitively) he would have edited it in a way to be very PC, even for their time. Yet, we have a Bible that presents all and does so unashamed. If discussing this verse creates a hornet's nest shame on us for taking the Word of God and finding one more way to attempt to divide the children of God. Thus, I think the emphasis on this miracle is not so much about the wine, but rather the authority of Jesus to supersede the natural laws of nature that were created for man and the operation of this world, but laws that do not bind God, the Creator of said laws. Jesus (God) is able to take something of this world and turn it into something else ... and the emphasis is on the fact that it is the best product after the change. Jesus is able to take lowly man and change him from what He was and into what he will become (new birth). New birth breaks the laws of nature, but is within the power and authority of our sovereign God. We also see that the change took place within earthen vessels. The water was changed, but not the exterior pot. We are changed initially spiritually and remain in the same body.
Note that many of the miracles of Jesus (walking on water, calming the storm, causing the tree to whither, raising the dead, feed the multitude, giving sight to the blind, and the list goes on) superseded the laws of nature demonstrating the power and authority of our sovereign God. I think we have to be cautious regarding being enamored with the miracles themselves (not saying you are, but simply attempting to make a point), but rather the miracles are given to point us to Jesus that we may become enamored with Him. I think this point is clearly seen in the ten plagues caused in Egypt. The emphasis of God was not the individual plagues that we may study them in depth to learn a hidden secret, but rather they were done to display God's power and glory.
As I ramble a bit I add one more thing. The Bible was given to reveal Jesus and the life we are being called to for His glory, yet often we find people search the Scripture for hidden meanings where it is easy to lose sight of Jesus. This principle is frequently found in the study of Revelation. Too often people want to figure out every prophecy and discern every symbol that they study Revelation and miss the Christ presented in chapter one and disclosed through the rest of the Book. Just an opinion :-)
Foods for thought.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Greetings,
IMO.........Christians either abstain from partaking of alcoholic beverages through their Biblical interpretations......or someone telling them that they should abstain.
Also MO, there are more Christians who do consume alcoholic drinks.......and do not admit it openly........for whatever reason.
I do agree with LT that basically the Scriptures do not forbid drinking wine, but clearly there are warnings about getting inebriated.
I guess what my point is.....readers of this passage - teetotalers, both real and phony, have a problem of why Jesus would perform this kind of miracle. There are probably some interesting explanations explaining Jesus turning water into wine.
O.K., Brethren, Let's imagine at your next church service the pastor says, " Everyone in here please stand if you are a regular partaker of alcoholic beverages socially...... not to the extent of being a drunkard........ and don't see anything wrong with it."
What do you think?
Now, let the record show as Archie Bunker would say, I believe this great miracle is very interesting......and I see nothing wrong or out of order with it. Maybe Jesus just wanted to give His disciples something to talk about down through the centuries.
Grace and Peace.
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I think there are several concepts on this. As in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8, we shouldn't do it in front of weaker Christians that might cause them to stumble. So rather than get seen with it and feel a need to explain, some hide it out. Others do it openly because they don't see a sin in drinking. And some feel convicted of it because it may be a stumbling block for them. Many religions hold to no drinking perhaps because of some buried observance of these two passages. But we can see this in just about everything. What of the Christians who are adamant that celebrating Christmas is a sin? Does that fall under these scriptures when one is in the company of weaker Christians and putting up Christmas decorations and talking about presents? I think it is more the case of are we "trying" to offend or are we oblivious to the other person's feelings on the issue? That Jesus turned the water into wine should open the eyes of people who believe drinking wine is a sin, and yet I think it is tied up into old religious beliefs that are hard to die out.
Which is sort of a discussion we had here at work today and me trying to break free of the things I was raised on so that my son is raised better. The scripture on generational curses comes to mind. Our bad behaviors are passed on to our kids who pass them on to their kids, etc. Same with the church religious beliefs. It is very difficult to put these things to rest and stop passing them down.
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Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on
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Seek ye first
I wholeheartedly agree with you about this being a stumbling block. Not only to new Christians but to the unsaved as well. When I used to drink I would have loved to see one of those 'christians' drinking , irregardless of wether they were 'drunk' or not, in order to justfy my continued drinking. Then throw that up in their face if they tried to witness to me.
I don't think it is a matter of wether it is sin or not, it is absolutely a stumbling block for others and our personal liberty to drink should not override our responsibility to others of a good example. Paul didn't . He even said he would never eat meat offered to idols ever again if it caused a weaker brother to offend. Even though he clearly explained that eating meat offered to idols was 'nothing ' because idols themselves were nothing.
Also, because they called the wine 'good' wine doesn't necessarily refer to the fact that it was more alcoholic in nature or even 'alcoholic' at all . I personally don't think the water to wine miracle was Jesus' telling people it was alright to drink wine. Especially since they had limitited options to wine in those days whereas we have unlimited options today.
Anyhow, those are just my opinions and I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else but I do stand by them.
God bless
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