rejection or betrayal and God's redemption

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on October 26, 2011 at 2:08pm

Hi Jane,

Excellent subject-matter. Thank you for your discussion.

Looks like you had Matthew 10:34-36 in mind: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. (35) "For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; (36) and a man's enemies will be the members of his household.". 

When my wife led me to Christ about 44 years ago, in the manner of 1Peter 3:1-2 (which, incidently sounds like Carla is doing in her household), I called my mother, who was alive at the time, although the news nearly killed her then, about my decision and baptism by immersion. She was quite indignant (mad!) because I had been"baptized" as an infant, and "raised" in the big church...........yada-yada-yada......

She never did really like my wife after that, but we all were on reasonable speaking terms.

 

Rita, i know exactly what you're talking about.

All we have to do is check some of the "hot buttons" here in the Forum - Calvinism/Arminism, Once saved/Always saved, etc.

Some folks really get defensive and tight-jawed writing their views............. Hmmmmm.

 

And I've seen in churches of various sizes, cliches and side talk about the pastor, type of service, color of walls in the restrooms,

etc,etc.

The Apostle Paul had a lot to say about these things in his epistles. It'll never change, I'm afraid. 

 

Grace and Peace.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on October 26, 2011 at 2:48pm

Richard,

 

Thank you for your beautiful encouragement.  It gives me hope for my husband.

 

Blessings, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on October 26, 2011 at 4:54pm

Exactly, Richard.

I don't understand the criticism that is thrown at some people who only want to praise the Lord and explain what they are learning. My mama always told me that you get more flies with honey than vinegar.

Blessings to you, Richard, in the Name of Christ, our Lord and Savior...

Rita

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on October 28, 2011 at 6:40pm

Thank you Richard and right on re your comments. It is nice to meet you. You sound like a very sensible guy. Boy I remember when as a baby Christian reading the Matt. 10 verse and thinking surely that must apply to someone else's family, because now that I'm saved my whole family is going to get saved too. LOL, was I ever wrong! I had a lot to learn!! And then your point about all the arguing amongst believers- I didn't know true believers were on so many different pages.

God Bless and would love to hear a little more about how your wife lead you to Christ.

Jane

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on October 28, 2011 at 6:36pm

  ¹³ If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. ¹⁴ For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. ⁱOtherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. ¹⁵ But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you^{2 j}to peace. ¹⁶ For how do you know, wife, ^kwhether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

ⁱ Ezra 9:2; Mal. 2:15

² Some manuscripts us

^j Col. 3:15; See Rom. 14:19

^k 1 Pet. 3:1; See Rom. 11:14

The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. 1 Co 7:16

God told us not to unequally yoked with unbelievers but some of us have married before we were saved. God also said that the husband was the head of the family. I think that it is unwise to try to *bring things to a head*. It would be better to pray for the person instead. If the husband loves the wife, he will respect her and respect her faith. 

Blessings, Carla,

Rita

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on October 29, 2011 at 7:21am

Yes Rita I well know this verse, but there is more to this verse then meets the eye if interpreted only in a black and white way minus the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit just as it is with any verse of the Bible. I have well studied this verse out and found there is a much different meaning to it then the way it is typically taught, and if wives and husbands who have gone through this could share their testimonies in a thread, I know the true meaning of the verse would be evident..

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on October 29, 2011 at 9:12am

The power of the Lord in the Christian is stronger than the power of the devil in the unbeliever in the marriage union. The believer sanctifies (sets apart) the unbelieving mate from the defilement that he or she would otherwise bring into the marriage. The Lord purifies the marriage situation through the believing mate so that even the children are blessed instead of cursed.

Like any of the other benefits of salvation, this sanctifying power of the Christian mate has to be released through faith. It is not automatic, but it is available to every believer so that any marital situation can be sanctified.

—Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary

 

Jane, I believe God in all that HE says in His Word. I get my direction from the Holy Spirit. I don't think He gives different  directions to different people. That can never promote unity of what we believe. Therefore, He doesn't do it.

1 Corinthians has a wealth of verses discussing marriage up to include marriage where the 2 people are unequally yoked. Therefore, I can't and won't agree with you.

 

Sorry!

Rita

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on October 29, 2011 at 10:35am

I say this in a respectuful manner to you Rita- I didn't ask for your agreement and don't need it. Here's why. Interestingly, I am very familiar with Andrew Womak whom you quote here. At one time, I greatly admired him as being a sound teacher of the Word. In fact, one year, I listened to a tape of his a day until I had listened to his entire teaching tape library of 300 and something tapes. But in time, God showed me that even Andrew Womack misses it and I subsequently discovered a number of his teachings where he certainly missed it.. No man is 100% accurate. It is only when we learn to listen to the Holy Spirit for ourselves that we can be sure we are in God's will. As far as Andrew's statement that you have quoted, although there is a measure of protection for wives and children of such unions, ask any wife or child in a situation like this how happy and blessed their lives are. No this is not a blessed union, it's a cursed union, not due to the saved wife, but due to the husband's rejection of Christ and the lack of unity that causes. Not saying that the wife in such unions can not have God's peace to a degree, but that God will resolve the issue when she listens to the Holy Spirit for how to proceed, and it does not mean what is typically taught that she should be sort of a non-person and just keep her mouth shut all the time or agree with everything her husband says including not going to church and other controlling things like that. There are many ways that husbands in these situations control the wife. Some don't care if their wife attends church and take the kids. But then they control in other ways. It is not really the husband, but satan in him that blinds him and causes disunity in the family with all it's negative results. Pastors often have poor answers for wives in these situations, like they will say just love your husband more and he will come around. It takes the wise counsel of the Holy Spirit for wives to know how to navigate through these situations and I am saying,  it is not through any of the typical religious answers that the wives most often get. So, I stand by my original statement that God does want unequally yoked marriages resolved and the interpretation of the verse you gave and related ones is not that wives endlessly walk on eggshells and placate their husbands. There are numerous faith actions they can employ and should and the situation will be brought to a head sooner rather then later.

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on October 29, 2011 at 6:59am

Wow Char,

Your post has been wonderful reading for my first of the day Sat. morning reading! You are a terrific writer and you capture so astutely what the Christian life is like. Let me tell you, the loser, satan, still attacks me although I am a lot further down the road then you. I have barely gotten up in the morning and he starts. I mean I haven't even brushed my teeth yet and here he comes! I'm so used to this that I am expecting him. On the days when he doesn't come around first thing, I am wondering why not- guess he's working on another believer somewhere lol. But the good news is, there is not a thing he can throw at us that God does not deliver us from. At present, I finally made it to the His blessings shall overtake thee stage, but that doesn't mean old satan still doesn't try to ruin things for me. Oh well, he keeps trying, but the reward of Heaven keeps gettin closer and I just smile and think how nice it will be to have that nag gone forever lol. Yours is an awesome testimony, Char, really. Just keep on truckin because you will see the faithfulness of God more and more to the point that you will be able to boldly proclaim, "Bring it on devil, shoot your best shot, my God is greater!!!!". I have learned to expect adversity, because my greatest victories occur as a result of the onslaught of the enemy. Think of it this way- the greater the attack the greater the victory! Also, if you didn't have attacks then you wouldn't get to encounter all the ppl you come into contact with who you otherwise wouldn't that you can show yourself strong to so that God will be glorified. Halleluiah to Jesus, this gets good! Yet another way to think about it, I call it reality thinking, is most of us like to believe that life on this earth is a tip toe through the tulips ( too many movies). No it isn't!  Expect adversity, put on your fighting gear and run it off, then you'll have a little peace for awhile. Enjoy it while you can knowing that right around the corner its coming again. It becomes like a game and you can always smile through the tears knowing that you're the winner... then you won't get so down in the valley all the time, but will have the fizz to shoot back up to the mountain tops. The more you grow in the Word and experience the faithfulness of God, the sooner you will be able to spring back from adversity and the day will come when like Paul, you will be able to say you are at peace in any situation. Everybody is trying to find this thing called peace and success. It doesn't happen overnight, but finally the day comes when the one who lives for the Lord experiences daily the success that only God can give. Its a life of simplicity that most don't ever grasp as they have run ahead of the Lord and wound up in many dead ends. Trust me, Char, it gets better and the day will come when you will be able to look back and see the amazing path the Lord brought you along. You will become the slayer of giants, not the other way around.  

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on October 29, 2011 at 12:42pm

Like I said before, Jane and will repeat for clarification. I get my information from the Bible and my leading and understanding from the Holy Spirit.

You are correct in saying that no man is 100% accurate and that is why I say that I can't agree with you because you are not correct in what you are saying.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on October 29, 2011 at 1:02pm

Dear Rita and Jane,

 

I just want to thank both of you for your input regarding living unequally yoked.  there are a few thoughts I want to share regarding it.

 

First of all, I know there are many painful living situations that people must endure, living unequally yoked would have to be among the top of the 'most painful' list.  A person who has lived it or is living can understand... if you have not lived it, you simply cannot understand how heart wrenching it is.

 

I think there is truth to what both of you are saying.  Rita is absolutely right in that we are to be respectful and obedient to our husbands..  but this is not to say respectful and obedient in all things.  there are many times when the wife cannot be obedient to the husband...and because of this things will come to a head (Jane's point).

 

Let me give you a great example from my life.

My son (12 years) Logan wanted to attend youth group....but my husband strictly forbidden it.  My son asked me for years if he could go.. I told him 'no' thinking I was being obedient to my husband..  Recently, God showed me that at the expense of being obedient to my husband, I was being disobedient to Him.  I did not see that for several years.  I repented, and I told God that I would be obedient to Him at all costs.. come what may.  I told God that I would leave the consequences to Him.

 

So, I helped my son find his voice to tell his Dad that he wanted to attend youth group.  Well..  That didn't go over well.  I will spare the details of how terrible it all was for a few weeks... and I will Glorify my Lord, that my husband did not move out as he threatened to.

 

Logan now attends youth group, my husband is 'okay' with it..  but in order to win that battle, I had to let things come to a 'head'.  I honored God, and left the consequences with Him.

 

In all things that do not dishonor God, I must honor and respect my husband.  God comes first..  and we must leave the consequences with Him.  God hates divorce, HE also wants us to live peaceably.  He wants our children to be devoted to Him, and to receive proper teachings of His ways.  Our God is a God of reconciliation..  and when we are obedient, He reconciles us in our relationships with Him and with others.

 

Things are not always black and white..  We have to listen to the leading of the Holy spirit.

 

Every time there is a new battle to be won so that I may gain new 'ground'  there is always tension.  The battle has already been won by our Lord..  so we just stay in Him and pray like crazy.  It's amazing how God works all things together for our good and His Glory.  It is important that I am obedient and respectful to my husband, It is also more important that I am obedient to God, and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.. There will be times that tension arises due to the Spiritual Battle that we are in.  I am learning to keep my eyes on Jesus, and He will bring us out of it.  There will be many painful times in an unequally yoked marriage...  It's hard knowing that unless the husband surrenders and submits, admitting his need for a Saviour, he will perish.  The first and most important line of defense is study to know God's Word, and equally important..  Pray.  be involved in Christian Fellowship. Stand Firm. and Pray some more.

 

Blessings, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on October 29, 2011 at 2:52pm

Hi Carla,

Thanks for your response. You are saying what I am saying exactly. Now let me ask you this. Lets kick it up a notch. Lets say your husband became emotionally, physically or sexually abusive to you and/or the children, how would you handle things then?

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