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REGENERATION?
Does regeneration occurs before we are saved or after? If we receive the Holy Spirit after we are saved, how can regeneration occurs before we are saved? Yet, God draws us to Christ.
If we can't come to Christ on our own, then we need a regenerated heart to do it.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Bro Dean,
Regeneration equals being born again. A new nature:
2 Corinthians 5:17
New King James Version (NKJV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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If you could regenerate your mind before you were saved, you wouldn't need Christ would you? Christ encourages you to do it now, no matter the condition. The clean up comes later. It takes the rest of your life.
After you come to Christ, your spirit is perfect. It's your soul that needs regeneration to be like your spirit. Your soul(mind) leans towards the physical. You need to renew you mind (soul) to work with the perfect spirit within you.
Speaking in tongues is a gift that is given to those that ask. You can also ask for the gift of interpretation. So you will know what you are praying when praying in tongues. Praying in tongues is praying in the spirit. The Bible says you must worship in spirit and in truth.
Hope this helps.
Blessings,
Rita
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Hello sis Rita,
To clarify what is believed by those of us who hold to Reformed Theology or the doctrines of Grace as they are also known, I will address your question:
>>If you could regenerate your mind before you were saved, you wouldn't need Christ would you?
No one who embraces the doctrines of Grace believes that a person could regenerate their mind before being saved. Rather what it's believed is that NO ONE would be saved, unless God regenerates them. Not by anything done of themselves, but by God's election and choosing alone.
John 1 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
You see beloved, those who received Him, were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The belief or teaching that God chooses or elects those who are saved is dependent upon his knowledge of our doing or decisions, is not found in the bible anywhere. The opposite is found and taught in scripture. The word teaches that is not by any human effort or will that those who are born again are born again. Nowhere in scripture do we find the popular belief that God in His foreknowledge has seen those who will chose Him and hence based upon that knowledge He has chosen them. Again, that is not taught anywhere in scripture, yet it is embraced by millions of Christians. The word clearly states that:
16It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”g 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”h 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
However we must receive Jesus as Lord and Savior and repent or our sins. I must chose Christ and my response/action at the moment of chosing Him, is very real and necessary. Human responsability is real, God will not believe for us, we must believe and receive Christ.
Blessings
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Beloved Nancy,
God does know the end from the beginning. We have numerous scriptures that attest to that fact, but that is not being questioned or challenge here, what is being examine is the following belief:
Did God draw me to himself, because He knew through His foreknowledge that one day as His Spirit convicted me of sin in my life, I would believe? Based upon that knowledge than God chooses me for salvation.
The above belief is not found in scripture. God has foreknowledge, indeed, He does but his foreknowledge of human actions, decisions do not play a role in His own election for salvation of individuals. That is not the determining factor. So if that is not the determining factor, what is? It is his good pleasure, so His purposes can come to pass. This we do see in scripture.
Ephesians 1:5 - having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Ephesians 1:9 - having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
Philippians 2:13 - for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Galatians 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased
Ephesians 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
Check out this discussion about Free will:What is Free Will?
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David,
Two areas I want you to ponder.....
CHAPTER 121 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. 1 Ti 2:3-6RENEW PER MERRIAM WEBSTERS2 : to make new spiritually : REGENERATE *be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind— Rom 12:2 (Authorized Version)*
(God does regenerate our spirits when we are born again. It is up to us to regenerate our souls (mind).
Have a blessed day,
Rita
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Sister Rita,
We must distinguish how we are using the word "regeneration". To regenerate something is to renew it, to make it new.
The word “regeneration” appears only twice in our Bible. Both times in the N.T., It was used once by our Lord in Matthew 19:28 and once by the Apostle Paul in Titus 3:5.
“Regeneration” is the translation of palingenesia, from palin (again) and genesis (birth). It means simply a new birth, a new beginning, a new order.
When the Apostle Paul used the word “regeneration,” he wrote, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5).
Regeneration then may be defined as an act of God whereby He bestows upon the believing sinner new life. This life is God’s own life, the imparting of His own nature. God Himself is the Source and Bestower of His life, so that believers are said to be “partakers of the Divine nature” (II Peter 1:4), “created in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 2:10), “born of God” (John 1:13), “born again” (John 3:3, 7), “a new creation” (II Corinthians 5:17).
The renewing of the mind is a process by the washing of the word. A process also known as the sanctification process. A process done in us by the Holy Spirit, by God. God sanctifies us positionally, once and for all, at the time of being born again, but God then also enrolls us in the process of sanctification, which involves renewing our mind. We are not to be passive/inactive in this process, but rather we are told to be very active.
So Romans 12 is not talking about the regeneration we are looking at here, though the word could be use to describe what's our Lord is telling us in that chapter. The word would be attached a different meaning there though.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1 Ti 2:3-6
In Timothy our Lord is simply revealing His heart to us. He wills that all men be saved. Yes, indeed our Lord does wish all men would come to Him. The problem is that not one man in the History of the world has ever come to Him, without the Lord first drawing that man to himself. Men love sin too much. Men are not being restrained by God, not to come, the offer of salvation is truly set before every person alive and that ever lived. But men will not come, unless God regenerates their Spirit. Then God gives the person faith to believe - Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast
The natural man is “dead in trespasses and sins . . . alienated from the life of God” (Ephesians 2:1; 4:18) because his iniquities have separated him from God (Isaiah 59:2). The need for being regenerated is universal. “There is none righteous, no, not one . . . For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:10, 23). “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Genesis 6:5). “The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one” (Psalm 14:2, 3). “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9). The best thing God can do for man is to bring him to a knowledge of his sin so that he will realize his need of being regenerated. Our Lord left no doubt as to the indispensable necessity of the new birth as a pre-requisite to entrance into the Kingdom of God.
God regenerates the person and gives them faith to believe, by His Grace and choice alone. Salvation is not of men, is a work of God.
Yes, I chose God, but God first chose me. Yes, I believed in God and received him into my life that glorious day, but God renewed me first, so I could see my sinful state and also seeing His amazing grace and beauty, I could not resist His effectual called. My creator renewed me and saved me from my dead (enslaved to sin) state I found myself to be in and I answered the calling. How could I not. It was an irresistible called; it was a called to be with my creator, who is full of Love and mercy. His love made it impossible for me to resist. How could I resist the Light? I could see that day for the first time, I was made a live that day.
The born again experience varies among our Christian family, some are radical experiences, while others are progressive, but the behind the scenes work of God is the same.
Blessings
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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**HOT TOPIC ALERT**
Hi Everyone,
This discussion has been identified as a hot topic alert. Please be aware that emotions may run high during discussions such as this. There are many varying views regarding Arminiasm/Calvinsim. Please be considerate to the beliefs of others. If the discussion becomes upsetting or goes in a way of being divisive, it will be closed. This discussion will be monitored closely.
Carla
Volunteer NET Administrator/Moderator
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Hi Nancy,
Basically, as I see it.
Arminiasm aligns with the belief of freewill. God chooses all people, and calls all people to repent and believe, and people respond to His call according to their freewill. Some will choose and accept Jesus, and others will refuse. The primary reason for refusal goes back to pride and refusing to submit to the authority of One. Calvinists say that this view denies God Sovereignty and Power.
Calvinism view--God chooses certain people to be saved, and others to be condemned. Calvinists refer to this as 'Election or predestination'. Either people are predestined to go to heaven, or predestined to go to hell. Arminiasm says that this view denies a loving God who forces people to bend to His will.
I have my personal views which I will keep out of this discussion for personal reasons. Other than this contribution, I will stay out of the discussion, but I will monitor it closely.
Blessings, Carla
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Nancy,
Carla was posting the “Hot Topic” warning for the benefit of the whole community. We have seen this particular topic get extremely hot in the past, so is intended for all here.
As long as the discussion is edifying we welcome all questions and comments. We know we will not always see eye to eye with every member in the body of Christ about this topic and other secondary issues and that is ok, the important thing is to remember that if we have all knowledge, but no love, then we have nothing.
I am using the opportunity your post granted me to remind us all that above all else we are to love one another. So let us be kind to each other. :)
Blessings family
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my understanding of regeneration is the process of regenerating. Being of the belief that we are all creation of God I believe He has us in a continual process of regeneration which is meant to regenerate us make us whole in the Lord. As for me I believe the Lord began a work in me long before I ever believed. The Lord once showed me that there had not been a period longer than 6 months in my life where He did not bring someone to me. During this time I used every arguement I could think of to tell these people they were nuts. In fact the one thing I needed to prove me point was to study. Study what well of course the BIBLE. As a none believer The Lord unknown to me had me for a period of 3 years having a bible study in my backyard every saturday. It was through this process of rethinking regrowth regeneration that the Lord made me whole and brought me home. Praise the Lord.. He works in awesome and powerful ways.
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