Question?

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on July 1, 2013 at 7:58pm

Amanda, sorry. I'm not trying to comment on you alone but I am trying to catch up on some discussions as I only have 200 replies still to read. I think you possibly misunderstood Grazer's meaning about tearing apart a relationship. I may be wrong but I think he was referring to you & his relationship.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 1, 2013 at 8:22pm

Tammy,
Grazer's words were:

"I'm not going to repeat what I've put already but yes, it is between God and I, so what made you think you could pour scorn, demean and try to tear apart that relationship?"

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on July 1, 2013 at 8:27pm

ok. I see. Again, my bad. Sorry. I'm done replying for the night. lololol

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on June 20, 2013 at 3:38pm

Grazer,

Here's something for you to think about and there's no need to reply or answer but you can if you want. Please know that in all I've said, I truly care about you and value our friendship.

Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. One must believe that the Scriptures are the inspired Word of God since Christ died according to the Scriptures. If we don’t believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, inerrant and infallible, then how could it be possible to believe that Christ died according to the Scriptures -- if some of them are in error or are fallible?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (NIV)

There are many biblical doctrines but they all center around one plain and simple teaching. That teaching is found in 1 Cor. 15:3-4. It’s the gospel of Christ.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (NIV).

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Permalink Reply by Grazer #E2H on June 21, 2013 at 12:46am

Because the Christian faith is not based on the Bible, the Bible didn't exist until mid 300AD at the earliest. 2 Timothy can only be referring to the Old Testament for this reason, the New Testament didn't exist then, the readers would have had no knowledge of it. I think Mike Licona is spot on when he says;

If Jesus rose from the dead then Christianity is true, even it it were to turn out that there were some things in the Bible that aren't true. The truth of Christianity is not based on the divine inspiration or inerrancy of the Bible, its contingent on whether Jesus rose from the dead and if Jesus rose game, set, match!

As I said earlier, a finite set of books cannot contain everything about an infinite God. We make the best of what we have

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on June 21, 2013 at 5:29am

All of the New Testament was written and circulated in the 1st century, mostly between 50 and 70 A.D. with Revelation coming near the end of the century..  During the time of it being written the people of the day had the people who God used to write it alive and walking amongst them. Thus, your assertion that they did not have the Bible is in error. The truth was lived before them and spoken first hand.

 

The Bible is not Jesus and yet it is irreplaceable and there is no book that is compares to it. It is God's Word to a lost world and He tells us that faith comes by hearing the Word. When missionaries go to an unreached people group who do not possess the written Word of God they tell them the Bible truths which is the Word of God being communicated verbally.

 

The article you posted. without further context, is mixed with truth and deception ... It tires to do something that God Himself does not do ... you cannot separate the truth of Jesus from the Word of God. The Bible is the true testimony regarding the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

Your last statement, by you, also mixes truth with deception or bait and switch if you will. While it is true that the Bible does not contain every thing about God (and it actually tells us this in the Word of God) it does not leave us to "do the best we can" as if God gave us something that was incomplete to find Him and then live for Him.

 

It is a shame that you have such a low view of the Word of God ... and yes, your view is a liberal view whether you like that term or not.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on June 21, 2013 at 5:36am

Grazer,

I label your views as liberal, which they are, so that those reading this and who do not know the difference between liberal and fundamental can understand where you are coming from and examine the difference in beliefs regarding the view of the Word of God, hermeneutics, face value or allegoric or edited at will, etc ... 

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Permalink Reply by Grazer #E2H on June 24, 2013 at 1:01pm

It may be liberal, but it's not low. I just approach it differently.

Technically, the Bible as we have it today, didn't exist before 300AD, before then it was all separate.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on June 24, 2013 at 5:02pm

Each book was there and already being used in the church. At the meeting you refer to they simply affirmed what the church was already using and compiled it together.

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on June 24, 2013 at 9:51pm

Grazer, you said:

"...Technically, the Bible as we have it today, didn't exist before 300AD..."

What difference does that make? The Hebrew/Jewish community didn't keep the OT of the Bible as a single document until advances in papyrus and binding made the possibility of a single book possible. That didn't mean that those earlier separate scrolls were any less "the Bible" before then.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on June 22, 2013 at 1:59pm

Grazer,

You said:

As I said earlier, a finite set of books cannot contain everything about an infinite God. We make the best of what we have

The Bible is not simply man made but I know you have never accepted that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and is infallible and inerrant. God has given it to us so that we do not have to grope helplessly in a blind search for truth. It is God-breathed. As human authors wrote, the Lord Himself was breathing and revealing His message to them and through them.

The Bible is doctrine itself. My prayer is that one day you will be able to accept this. I follow Christ and remain teachable so that I can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose sound doctrine – the trustworthy message – as Titus 1:9 says, “He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”

Rejecting the truths of the Bible as truths is very different from failing to walk in them and all of the light that we have been given.

We have liberty on disputable matters but the essential doctrines are not disputable matters. 1Timothy 4:16 says, “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” Whether you want to admit it or not, the teachings that you are holding to are doctrines. You hold to doctrines, to teachings. You often quote the ones whom you are in agreement with on their teachings. 

Saying Jesus is as a superhero, is like a superhero or is a superhero, an idol of this world, is rejecting the truth in Acts 17.

In your comments you have said that seeing Jesus as a superhero is OK when superheroes are idols that people worship. We are not to see Jesus as or like a superhero and say that he is or has attributes of a superhero. We are not to say that Jesus is like money which is an idol of this world, or is like Buddha, or is like a golden calf or is like anything of this world that is made by human design and skill. Period. Idols are the context of Acts 17. Acts 17 is very clear.

In the discussion you have posted a cartoon of Jesus in the suit of a superhero. In a blog post, you continue to say you love the new movie, The Man of Steel, and to endorse it, when it is portraying Superman not just like Jesus, which is bad enough, but as a metaphor that Superman is Jesus.

Why?

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on June 22, 2013 at 2:30pm

Amen Amanda.

 

The Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter I

Of the Holy Scripture

I. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable;[1] yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation.[2] Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church;[3] and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing;[4] which makes the Holy Scripture to be most necessary;[5] those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.[6]

II. Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testament, which are these: Of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi. Of the New Testament: The Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul's Epistles to the Romans, Corinthians I, Corinthians II, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians I , Thessalonians II , To Timothy I , To Timothy II, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, The Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation of John. All which are given by inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life.[7]

III. The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the Church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings.[8]

IV. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.[9]

V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture.[10] And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.[11]

VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.[12] Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word:[13] and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.[14]

VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:[15] yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.[16]

VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;[17] so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.[18] But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them,[19] therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,[20] that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner;[21] and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.[22]

IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.[23]

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24

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