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Question: "Will there be a second chance for salvation after the Rapture?"
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Raj,
You are correct when you say Revelation is not in chronological order. However, some of it does appear to be as they are tied together such as the seven seals and then the 7th seal begins the seven trumpets, etc. Your thesis that Jesus is going to rescue us out of the tribulation is not necessarily true. Believers have had to endure much tribulation over the centuries. Are you from America? It almost sounds as if you are since we Americans of my generation have not seen much tribulation and shudder at the thought of it. It is pretty normal in some parts of our world for Christians to be facing severe persecution.
Jesus said, Jn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. KJV
If there is one thing we are promised, it is that we will have tribulation. You may get a warm, cuddly feeling thinking about not having or going through the Great Tribulation but I don't think you can bank on that. What we are promised is that we will not have to face God's wrath.
However, you can still have warm, cuddly feelings knowing Jesus will be with you through all your trials and tribulations. Those who do not accept Christ will not only have to endure the tribulation but the wrath of God as well.
Roy
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Raj,
You are speaking of events that occur before the resurrection, not after. Yes, there will be people saved all during the tribulation. However, once Jesus comes back and takes His people home with Him, there will be no more saved. At least, that is how I read the Bible. I don't find numerous resurrection, etc.
Roy
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Raj,
It doesn't matter how good the picture looks. What matters is what is Scriptural. Do you have Scripture to back up your theory. If so, that would be great. I would like to think we would miss all the trouble.
Roy
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Roy,
I've told you that I do not want to engage in this discussion until I have studied it more.. and now here I am replying..I just couldn't resist ;-).. Here is an article to address your question:
So, my question is ... How do you interpret these verses?
Question: "What is the Rapture of the church?"
Answer: The word “rapture” does not occur in the Bible. The concept of the rapture, though, is clearly taught in Scripture. The rapture of the church is the event in which God removes all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. God will resurrect all believers who have died, give them glorified bodies, and take them from the earth, along with those believers who are still alive and who will at that time also be given glorified bodies. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
The rapture will be instantaneous in nature, and we will receive glorified bodies at that time. “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). The rapture is the glorious event we should all be longing for. We will finally be free from sin. We will be in God's presence forever. There is far too much debate over the meaning and scope of the rapture. This is not God’s intent. Rather, in regard to the rapture, God wants us to “encourage each other with these words” (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
Recommended Resource: Three Views on the Rapture by Gleason L. Archer, Jr., ed..
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Carla,
The rapture is a part of my statement of faith. I am confident in the resurrection of the dead. I believe there will be some alive at the resurrection that are believers in Christ. They will be caught up to heaven with the righteous dead. I have no problem with the word "rapture." I am only questioning the time of the rapture. Some put the rapture at the beginning of the tribulation. This means there will be more than one resurrection of the righteous dead. That, I am not sure is established in Scripture. However, I am in complete agreement with you on the verses you have shared on the rapture. I believe there are many other verses that speak of the same event. However, those are synonymous with the resurrection of the dead.
Some have spoken about the 144,000. I probably believe differently on who they are but that is another topic.
I'm not sure that I will be alive when the rapture (to me synonymous with the resurrection) takes place but if I have already gone and you are still here, I will meet you in the air. At that time we will know which one is right but then we will no longer care. Actually, I don't care even now. I hope I am wrong on this subject and we go before all the tribulation. I just don't think there is enough Scripture to make that a part of my fundamental beliefs. However, the rapture is.
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Roy,
I believe that the timing of the Rapture is not meant to be known to us.. God wants us to be living for Him every day..each day is a full sacrifice of all we have and all we are.
My morning prayer with my 7 year old this morning was something like this:
Heavenly Father,
Thank you for today Lord. We Love you Lord and we long to live to please you and give up our day as a sacrifice for your Glory and your purposes. Strengthen us to live for you. In Jesus name we pray.. Amen.
My son looked at me a little scared.. becasue I had spoken to him about what a sacrifce was in the OT.. LOL.. Of coarse his little brain was operating a mile a minute when he asked me 'Mommy.. what do you mean by sacrifice?'
I said.. ' sweety.. it just means that we live for God and do the things He tells us to do becasue we love Him so much and we want to please Him..'
I'm really glad he asked for clarification.. ;-)
Well... that was big sigh of relief.. ;-)
I hope the rapture happens ...NOW... okay... NOW.. how about ...'NOW'.. alright.. apparently there is still much work to be done.
Blessings brother.. Carla
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Carla,
I am in agreement with you. I don't really believe we can know for sure when it takes place. I am convinced it is coming, but when is speculation. There was a time, however, that I would think that if I missed the rapture I would still have time to get ready. That, I really don't believe anymore. We need to be ready when He comes. There probably will not be a second chance. I am ready this second for His coming. I am ready. My garment is white but only because of what He has done.
Roy
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Michelle,
I am afraid that you are guilty of saying more than the Bible really says. The Bible does teach that we will meet Him in the air before He returns to earth. What it doesn't teach is that this happens seven years before His return to earth. I am not being critical of you for believing that. I just think you have to say the Bible is saying things that it is not really saying. Just as an example:
You said:
4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
There is nothing in 1 Cor 15:50-54 that tells me that the rapture will be a secret catching away of the saints. It is most definitely the rapture/resurrection. However, I can just as easily say that this event happens at the close of the tribulation as you can say it happens at the beginning of the tribulation. I believe there is much Scripture to support that the resurrection of the dead happens just before He returns. I see very little support for a pre-trib rapture. All you are saying, here, are just words. You are not giving any Scriptural evidence that there is a secret catching away of the saints before the tribulation.
I am certainly not saying that the rapture and the 2nd coming are the same event. By the way, when He returns to this earth He will be in the clouds as well.
Also, there are many that disagree with you about Israel and the church. The true Israel today is the church. At least that is what I see in Scripture. I do believe some Jews will be saved through the wrath of God but will not be saved in the same sense that those who believed in Jesus will be saved. However, that is a different discussion.
Roy
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Michelle,
You related 1Cor 15 to 1 Thes 4. as the same event. If so, 1 Thes 4:13-18 says the following:
1 Th 4:13-18
13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words. NIV
Michelle, this event does not sound like a secret, quiet event. It is His coming. Paul goes on to correct some misunderstanding concerning this event in his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians. He says:
2 Th 2:1-4
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. NIV
Here he is further describing the event that he spoke of in 1 Thes 4. It is the same event. Yet, this one clearly states that it won't happen until the rebellion occurs and the son of perdition is exposed. Most people believe this refers to the anti-Christ that comes on the scene midway through the tribulation according to both. Please note, however, the way he speaks of this event. He says the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered unto Him. I believe these two events are very close together, not seven years apart. I don't believe Scripture supports that theory.
However, there are many, as I once did, that will stand by this theory as an established fact. It is nothing more than a theory that some believe. I doubt very seriously that it is a tenant of faith in your church. Your pastor may teach that but if you are a part of a denomination, many in your denomination will not say this is the way it will happen.
Roy
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Michelle,
First of all, I apologize for using those words. What I am saying is that the Scripture you are giving doesn't substantiate what you are saying. You give a verse that talks about His coming and then say that is a secret catching away. However, what I am saying is that the verse doesn't say what you are saying it says. I used to believe exactly like you do. When we have preconceived ideas it is easy for us to interpret Scripture based on those ideas instead of letting Scripture just say what it says. None of the verses you have used teach a secret catching away of the saints before the tribulation. The verses do teach a catching away of the saints but not that it is in secret. When you talk about a thief in the night, you are thinking that He will secretly come to the earth and rapture out His people that are ready and leave the others behind. That is not what the verse is teaching at all. What we are being taught is that it will happen suddenly when people are not expecting it. However, we are told that we should be expecting His return and not like those who are not ready.
What if I would say that 1 Thessalonians 4 teaches that Jesus will rapture His saints out just before He returns to earth? Do I have any less evidence than you to say such a thing. No, but I have to use other references to substantiate what I am saying since that reference does not give us a time when this will happen. It just teaches that it will happen. The same is true with 1 Cor 15. These are wonderful verses that give much information but they are certainly not talking about a secret catching away of the saints. It could be a secret one but you must give more Scripture to say that. You cannot use those verses and say they teach there is a secret catching away of the saints before the tribulation. That is what I mean by just words. I really didn't intend to be offensive and I apologize for that.
I know exactly where you are since I have been there. I used to preach a pre-tribulation rapture. I no longer preach that as I don't believe there is enough evidence for that theory. I believe there is much more evidence for a mid to post tribulation rapture. However, as I have said often, I pray and hope that none of my grandchildren have to endure the tribulation. I think some are calling the entire tribulation a time of God's wrath. He is certainly intervening but I don't think the earth receives the brunt of His wrath until towards the end of the period.
Please forgive me for any offense.
Roy
Roy
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Michelle,
I hesitate to disagree but you are reading something into a verse that is not necessarily there. Quickness doesn't make it secret. Yes, it is quick but not necessarily secret. This may actually be a moment at the conclusion of the tribulational period just before God pours His wrath out upon the world. Everyone who is going to be saved by this time will either be resurrected from the earth or changed in a moment and raptured at the same time of the resurrection.
Your interpretation may not be correct. You have to put this one in a different category than those beliefs that you would consider fundamental beliefs. Do you agree or do you believe this is one of your fundamental beliefs? That could mean core beliefs, statement of faith, etc.
Roy
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