All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Question: "Will there be a second chance for salvation after the Rapture?"
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Beloved Roy,
Hey bro, finally a topic we disagree on hahaha It was bound to happened with so many topics in the word. I still love you though hahaha
I believe in pre wrath rapture and do agree with you that the resurrection happens when the rapture takes place, but this resurrection is only of Christians, not unbelievers according to my understanding. I have to find time to get into these topics more in depth.
:)
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Dear Bro. David,
I hoped you would jump into this one. I also believe in pre-wrath rapture. However, His wrath will be poured out upon the earth at the very end of the tribulation. Once His wrath is poured out, there will be little left. It has been many years since I have really studied the end-times. I am glad this one is going. It will force us to keep our eyes looking up. Whenever He comes I am out of here. I'm not sticking around for any misunderstanding I might have had. If He came tomorrow, you would not get an argument from me.
I also believe the resurrection is for the believers only. We just might be a lot closer than you think. Here's the problem: we are reading the same Book and we think quite a bit alike. Well, I've got to write a Bible test to give my young ones a little later this morning. You all have a blessed day.
Roy
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Beloved Ron,
I am a bit familiar with your view. I have not done a lot of research on the topic since eschatology (future events) is not my favorite topic, but I do realize that others in the body have been given a passion for it and I thank God for them. I am not sure that only Jews will be save through the great tribulation, but it sure sounds right, but I am not convince yet :). The 144,000 will be from the tribes of Israel, which strengthens your view, I believe. However Ron what throws me on a loop is verse 9, which states that people will be save from: "from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne."
Revelation 7 >>New International Version
9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Mat. 24:21-22 - " For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, and except those days should be shortened, (God's intervention to stop man's devastation against all life) there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake (God's chosen saints) those days shall be shortened."
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Let's see if I can earn the title of "Rabble Riser" or even a despot.
Remember Rev 20 is dealing with Final Judgement. Everything that was going to happen has happened.
Your choice of verse is good and certainly applies to people of every nation who went through the Tribulation. There is nothing said here of the Rapture. But, what if there was a Post Tribulation Rapture? Would people still have been able to become Christians after the Rapture? My question remains and my answer is still: "I don't think so."
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Ron,
I just have a minute but I have to agree with you that no one will be saved after the rapture. I am quite confident that the rapture has to take place mid to post. I see no way to put it at the beginning but I hope I am wrong. God's children don't need a rapture to get them to get saved. That is the wrong kind of thinking in the first place.
Roy
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hi Ron,
Are you trying to stir the pot? :-)
It's my understanding that gentiles can come to Christ after the Rapture.
Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Who are these who have been beheaded?
Rev 6:9-11 speaks of the souls who were martyred for their testimony:
Rev 6:9 ¶ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.
Rev 7 speaks of a 'great multitude...' besides the 12 tribes of Israel which are lined out early in Rev:7
Rev 7:9 ¶ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
This great multitude must be gentile believers who have come to know the Lord during the trib. period, due to the preaching of the Jewish 144,000 of the twelve tribes.
I believe the Rapture is imminent..nothing else needs to happen for it to take place.
I'm starting a full bible study on this in the new year.. I'm excited to begin it.
Blessings, Carla
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Hi Carla,
Your question:
Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Your question: Who are these who have been beheaded?
Note that these who were being beheaded were either Christians (They were beheaded for their witness of Jesus)
so it is obvious that the Rapture had not taken place yet.
Or the Rapture had taken place and we are looking at the tribulation period where the Jews who had accepted Christ and are prepared to die for their belief. (To explain the Jews acceptance please scan up to my answer to Roy)
For the life of me, I just cannot see Gentiles accepting Christ after the Rapture. This is tantamount to accepting the possibility of second chance. The Gentile world will be so taken up with the tribulation that they won't have time for anything else. But the Nation of Israel, now that's another tale.
"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zec 12:10
Praise God!
Similar to the Apostles they would be prepared and willing to become martyrs for Christ.
Blessings to all
Ron
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Hi Ron,
The Jewish Nation Will call on the Lord during the Tribulation once they realize their error in rejecting Christ as Messiah..Praise God!.. indeed..
I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture. There is no mention of 'the church' in the book of Revelation. If we 'the church' are present during the trubulation, then I believe scripture would make mention of it.
Blessings, Carla
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Carla,
The church is all over the Book of Revelation. You are just looking for the word "church" which is also not found in other NT Books. Who are the saints in the following:
Rv 13:5-10
5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. 6 He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast — all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.
9 He who has an ear, let him hear.
10 If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity he will go.
If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword he will be killed.
This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
NIV
The church is still there. You are just looking at it from a different perspective. If you believe that some will get saved during the tribulation, are they not a part of the church? Indeed, the church is there wherever you place the rapture.
Roy
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Carla,
I hope you realize you represent all those who have been taught that there is a rapture before the tribulation. So, when I address you I am really addressing those who believe in a pre-trib rapture which is a great part of the Evangelical church. I also grew up being taught this and would not consider anything else until I personally saw some problems with that theory. Let me give an example:
2 Th 2:1-4
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. NIV
Here is a very obvious glaring problem with a pre-trib rapture. This event seems to be taking place at the middle of the tribulation and Paul is stating that the coming of Jesus won't precede this rebellion. It seems to me to much has to be done before Christ can come.
There is coming a great falling away. Jesus spoke of this:
Mt 24:10-14
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. NIV
A great persecution against the church is coming. The man of lawlessness (anti-Christ) will be revealed and cause all to worship him. He will exalt himself above God. Those who refuse to accept his mark will be persecuted. This is not the time of God's wrath, David, that wrath is yet to come. As bad as the man of lawlessness is and as bad as he can make things for the saints, it cannot even be compared to the wrath that is soon to come upon the earth. The rebellious ones will be crying out for death. Their boasting and pride will be done. Their arrogance against God will be finished. They will be brought to their knees confessing Jesus is Lord but it will be too late for them.
Now is the day of salvation. Confess all your sins, turn to Him and be saved. Jesus is Lord even now. Before His wrath is poured out upon this earth, we will be caught up to meet Him in the sky and will be with Him forever. I believe the entire world will see us in the heavens with Him just before He comes back on the earth. When He comes, every eye will see Him. They will also see us, the redeemed of the Lamb.
I love Jesus with my whole heart. He is Lord of all. I am so glad to be a part of His great army.
In Him,
Roy
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Hi Roy,
Pardon my haste in responding to this post earlier.. What I meant to say was the church is not present in Revelation chapters 4 thru 18, which is when the harsh events of the tribulation occur.
Blessings, Carla
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