All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Question from an Atheist.
Jeremiah 17:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Should you trust your heart in this case?
Romans 10:9 ...if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
So explain how the same book teaching you not to trust your heart also uses that same concept as the key to salvation. It seems I am required to "believe in my heart" but then admonished as foolish for trusting it.
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How would you answer this question?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Wholehearted, I'll let Roy answer as he deems appropriate or not answer if he doesn't feel led to respond, but I am concerned about something you have said. Salvation is a complete gift. There's nothing we can do to earn it or deserve it. We all deserve Hell. Faith is not something that, if we work up enough of it, we will be saved or become born again. So please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your meaning when you say it's not just something that God just gives us. And I'm also not clear on what you mean when you ask, if Christians really understand what it means to be saved when they're baptized ...? Can you clarify what your understanding is of what it means to be saved?
Here is a good article about what salvation being a gift means. Thank you in advance for clarifying what you mean here.
http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-gift.html
I will add that I agree that our faith should and will grow as we mature in the faith. But it starts out as a gift and the good work that God begins in us is something that God continues doing in us. It does matter how we live but works can't earn salvation or maintain it.
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Wholehearted,
There are many biblical doctrines but they all center around one plain and simple teaching. That teaching is found in 1 Cor. 15:3-4. It’s the gospel of Christ.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (NIV).As we look at those two verses we see:
First, Christ died. Who was he? It’s important what we believe about Jesus. He is truly God and truly man. The deity of Christ is clearly stated in the first verse of John 1:1. Jesus claimed His own deity when He said, “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58). Jesus is also man. He was born of the virgin Mary. Philippians 2:5-8 puts it this way:
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!Second, Christ died for our sins. People who are not saved are dead in their sins (see Ephesians 2:1). Romans 3:10 says, As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one” and Romans 3:23 says, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
To be saved one must see their own sin and not try to justify it but confess it. The word confess means “to agree with” and when we confess our sin to God we are saying, "God, you are right. I’m wrong. I have broken Your holy commandments. I have sinned. I am lost in my sins.”
Third, Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. One must believe that the Scriptures are the inspired Word of God since Christ died according to the Scriptures. If we don’t believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, inerrant and infallible, then how could it be possible to believe that Christ died according to the Scriptures -- if some of them are in error or are fallible?
2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (NIV)
Romans 5:8
New International Version (NIV)
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Fourth, He was buried. Jesus died on the cross to pay the full penalty for our sins. Because of what He did by dying in our place, salvation is offered to us as a gift and is received by faith. Baptism, living a good, moral life, working for charity, or anything else can do nothing to save us from our sins. Jesus did it. He was our substitute. He was sinless and was a perfect sacrifice. He was our substitute in life, living completely sinless and keeping the whole law without erring, which is something that no person can do, and He was our substitute in death, where He suffered the wrath of God and took our Hell on the cross and died for us in our place. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) and Jesus paid those wages for all who receive Him as Lord and Savior by faith.
Romans 3:28
New International Version (NIV)
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.Ephesians 2:8-10
New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.Last, He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures. Once again, it is important to believe that the Bible is infallible and inerrant and is the Word of God. Without the resurrection all is vain.
Romans 6:23
New International Version (NIV)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.Eternal life is through Jesus Christ alone. And that is the Gospel. It is a gift and now it's been explained to you. But, if you still have questions, that's OK and we are hear, listening to you.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Amanda -
Good word sis. Excellent summary.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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Wholehearted, what I would say is shame on that church. We as Christians should always lead the newer ones on what they've received before they get baptized. My husband & I have written a Bible study which he taught every Sunday morning before moving to Texas. It was the basic essentials in what they have actually chosen & what to do from this moment on. Christians have dropped the ball on this one. Someone receives salvation & then we drop them & say "Go pray & read your Bible" & expect them to make their merry way with skittles & rainbows. Oh yea, don't forget to get baptized. I think this is a big problem in churches.
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Tammy, I understand what you are saying but it is also true that most people who bash the Body of Christ for having dropped the ball on the Great Commission are people who don't even attend church and are not even looking for a biblical church and are not even doing their part in carrying out the Great Commission.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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I have a minute here to agree. Almost all criticism comes from those who are not doing anything.
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Wholehearted,
Thank you for sharing what part of my statement bothered you. Laughing when my students don't get something is not condescending at all. The laughing is a happiness that comes over me when my students are just being students. I have great love for my students. I was the same way when my children were very young and did not understand certain things. I laughed because I was happy. I loved them. I love watching them learn.
However, we do disagree on salvation. We obviously come from different perspectives. Am I picking up that you might believe certain things like baptism are necessary unto salvation? I'm not sure. I can say that the verse you quote does not say what you say it is saying. You are interpreting that God will reward the seeker with faith or at least it sounds as if you are saying that. You do say that faith can be developed through diligently seeking Him. That is not what the Scripture is saying. It says He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. The faith precedes this blessing. It is not a result of it. Before a person can even approach our eternal, self-existent, all-powerful God, he must believe that He is God. He must already have faith. If we come to God in faith, we receive all kinds of blessings. The seeker must believe. It is that faith that saves him from his sins.
God has come to seek the lost. It is the Spirit that draws the lost sheep. The lost understand that they are lost. There is something missing. There is a craving inside. He responds to the craving and seeks to find. The faith within responds to Truth and receives Christ. He is saved. I do believe that faith without works is dead but it is the faith that saves. If faith is not accompanied by deeds, it is not really faith. It is an impostor. It is fraudulent. The tree without fruit is good for only the fire. It is not producing. Yet, our Lord instructs us to tent to it to make sure that it is fruitless.
No one can be accepted without faith. It is the difference of a child of God or a child of the devil. There is no other way to access this path to God. You or I do not have the privilege, the authority nor the wisdom to second guess that plan of God. We must believe and specifically, we must believe in His Son Jesus. No man can access this glorious plan of salvation through any other path.
You probably already believe all of this. We are not saved by grace through faith and faith alone; not by works but works must be present as was in all the examples given in Hebrews 11.
Blessings.
Roy
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Yes there is proof that one is saved and it's mentioned by the Lord in the parable of the sower and also in other Scriptures -- proof is fruit (Matthew 3:7-8; 7:15-20).
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