purgatory

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 9, 2009 at 11:36pm

Hi Tom,
I don't recall commenting on this blog regarding Purgatory. Also I can't find amongst 23 Bibles, the statement: "Not all sins lead to death". Someone please correct me if it is...

But allow me to quote:
"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes,
and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die". Eze 18:21

What I do know about Purgatory is that it is not listed in Scripture. The Roman Catholic belief on Purgatory cuts right across the Salvation of our Lord and Saviour and belittles the need for the terrible sacrifice that Christ paid for us on the Cross. In fact one would not need Christ to eventually reach Heaven

How is this possible. Well quite clearly the Catholic belief is that should you die and find yourself in Purgatory. You will stay there before you can go to heaven, until you have either served your full time for your sinful life, or until the prayers of family and friends can have you released.

Therefore "Who needs Christ's sacrifice?" My family and friends will get me released after a short stay in Purgatory. This is Roman Catholic doctrine and if I should cricicize Catholicism as I do now this would be one of the reasons
There are many other Roman Catholic doctrines not found in the Bible, but seeing that this blog is only discussing Purgatory, I won't pursue the other doctrines.

Finally This does not mean that I have any hate towards the Catholics as people. But I am concerned for them.

You see Tom, Catholics do believe the sacrifice that Jesus made for the world. But BELIEF alone is insufficient for salvation.
Simon was a Believer and was even baptised "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." Acts 8:13 Sadly it appears that he was only in it for money and perhaps "fame" But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
So we see Tom that Belief and Baptism is not enough to get one saved. While one cannot be saved by works yet the proof and reality regarding our faith and eventual salvation, are our works. "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works". James 2:18

Finally should the works that one does in a religion, lead others astray and find themselves in a lost eternity.
Then one as a Christian must surely point this out to them, failing which you become a party to their cause.

Blesssings
Ron Payne

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Permalink Reply by Edwin Muir on October 10, 2009 at 7:50pm

Preach the gospel to the meek;Job 6.26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
Else they come in and they go out more offended.
Beauty or Ugly is as beauty or ugly does.Jer 23.33 on KJV
To the pure all things pure,but to him that is defiled nothing is pure.
The Pure in heart shall see *GOD* Matt 5
Catholiscism (such were some of us)is one of satans bigger successes and as Judas, walked defiantly with *JESUS* so watch Your P`S for Gods promises AND avoid your Q`S for fears quailings as they that do the will of *GOD* shall know the doctrine wether it is of *GOD*,Submit,Resist & rest easy soldiers,people need to see the manifestation of the sons of *GOD* and get convicted of thier need.
Shall see Your good works(of faith) and Glorify Your *Father* which is in Heaven.

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 10, 2009 at 5:56pm

Tom, I too have been to many Charismatic meetings in a Catholic Church. In fact I was asked by them to assist them. They required someone to pray for the students who had been told all about tongues and at the end of the 3 or 4 week lessons someone to pray with each student to receive the gift.
I used to sit outside before going in, literally in fear and asking the Lord to help me because so many relied on and looked forward to what was going to happen, I was just a man and most unhappy about the responsibility. But praise God He never let any one go away without the gift they came for.
Yes, and I also enjoyed their meetings. My own quiet prayer for those Catholics at the meeting was that their eyes that had been opened to the joy that is found in the Lord, be fully opened to the love of Christ and what truths He has for them.
Ron

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Permalink Reply by Edwin Muir on October 11, 2009 at 3:40pm

Read Ravening wolves and know that as Nazi`s and Communism,Jihad of Islam,etc,etc,Greedy Judas`es and gainsayers are alive and well even in the uttermost part New Zealand,but we should walk in the Spirit,milk is for babes.Confess You are on milk and have not led 1 soul to *Christ* even in intercession,for a long while, and be not many teachers for You shall receive the greater condemnation.Laziness and drunkiness alike.
They sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play=Idolatry
Most go,busy as,Bless Your Day.Blessed unoffended in *ME* says the *LORD*

Permalink Reply by Edwin Muir on October 10, 2009 at 6:33pm

In the 8os I was LED to go to a Catholic Charismatic conference(Pure testimony and all liars have thier place in the lake that burns with fire)
I enquired of The *LORD*may I take a honourable friend.And was allowed;precedent I knew of,
Judges 7.10 But if thou fear to go down, go thou with Phurah thy servant down to the host:
Wonderful but nothing luxurious provision was supplied throughout the 3+ day trip.
During the conference Auckland Cath/Bis`Dunn declared a need for healing and prophecy etc as so;"The protestants have it and so must we."
During the socalled worship the adulation for Mary far surpassed the same for Our *LORD* and the next moment I was aware of massive wings opening in front of me and I was seeing into the spirit world.
The anointting staved off fear but grotesque and mocking are two words I will leave You with.
The great wings closed again and now I am being approach by a mother
of two children that tells me they have gone now to the baptist church.
"I have been watching You,and what do You make of all this,I`ve always been a catholic,I couldn`t leave."she said "The *LORD* is leading You Sis."said I, and apart from this honest testimony I recall nothing else pertinent.
When leaving the *Spirit* prompted me to give the catholic Bishop of Wgn this written verse;Jn 5.44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? and we soberly drove back to Auckland.I have been keeping diaries for 36 years.
.Yours,In The Fear of the *LORD* and comfort of the Holy *Ghost*Ed Muir
Pro 16.6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

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Permalink Reply by Edwin Muir on October 11, 2009 at 2:29pm

As many as I love I rebuke and chasten;By *HIS*Grace I love sinners,(satanists included),of whom I am Chief and gladly be less loved as I am, for being frank and earnest,poorness in obedience is far different than being finally a ravening wolf as Rome was,is,and shall be again,as the deadly wound is healed,mark My Words.The *LORD* appoints and annoints *HIS* own and critiscism is not open rebuke Tom!.
Heb 4.12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Rebuke a wise and? Rome is a Seducer,tho precious are the souls caught in her snare,agreed? Jn 5.44 beware the flatterer.

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Permalink Reply by Edwin Muir on October 12, 2009 at 1:05am

Hi Tom,Yes You are the pot calling the kettle,black (at times) and dont know it, but hopefully thats because grace is calling strongly and You shall find Your enclave as You persue peace with all men but dont compromise Your integrity,by being quiet when You shouldnt.
This condemning those who judge line, is real wolf stuff for he that is spiritual must judge all things or be taken in by everything of course.Writing people off uncharitably is another thing altogether.
And as Paul warned his friends against Alexander the coppersmith and others,so must we warn the faithful of wolves and quicksand or have blood on our hands.Testimonies are great if we can answer through them and let the *Spirit* of the *LORD* convict but fear of offending often leads to nothing being done and the truth is buried and powers move in to dominate through fear.
In my 60s I have seen and suffered heaps for folly and for My Precious *LORD* but glad to say have found THE WAY Wonderfully hard on the flesh,but emphasis on the Wonderfull
rather than the hard.
New Zealand has its `she`ll be right` attitude that has allowed lukewarmness but *Father* has *His* watchmen that cry day and night unto *Him* for a turning of hearts.Noone escapes the sift and the shake so I am so glad *He* can make the weak stand.HALLELU*JAH* *JESUS*,BE EXPECTANT SOLDIER.
**His* eye is on the sparrow so I know *He* watches us well.
Caption to photo;"Enough,dad,I am gettin bit cold.""Lets head for the Palms."

Attachments:

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 10, 2009 at 5:37pm

Tom, one may know that a certain doctrine is wrong but it must not be taken for granted that he will then shove their faults down their throats. Obviously the discussion that one would take with a person misled in any denomination, willl be done with sensitivity, love and concern.
In our discussion here on paper as it were, there is no time to spend hours explaining. With Pages and pages of explanation, one can be pretty sure that it will not be read in it's entirety Because of this one gets straight to the point when writing on paper. It may then appear to be indifferent, brash and insensitive to people who are caught up in a false doctrine. But believe me in real life, the approach is far more sensitive with a tremendous amount of concern. After all we are dealing with a soul. - Ron

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 10, 2009 at 6:16pm

Tom, I am talking about a general approach to any one who would need
assistance on any problem they had. Be they Christians or Unbelievers, Alcoholics or Prostitutes it matters not. They are souls. My biggest fear Tom and often there is nothing I can do about it. The fear is that as I stand at the Judgment seat with people I might know, they will turn to me and say: "Ron, you knew and yet you never said a word to help me escape this terrible day." Hence Tom, I try to create opportunities to witness to whoever I can. Each approach may start off with a general topic which I attempt to steer towards God's plan for them, namely salvation.
Also Tom the time difference makes it difficult to read each other letters as they come in. It may be day wherever you are and night by me and as I take one of three letters to answer it may not be in proper sequence, hence the replies get a little muddled.
Blessings
Ron

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 10, 2009 at 10:59pm

I give up Tom....? Everything that is said, you twist it around to mean something else and then you take it personally.. I said "their throats" not yours.
I shall not be replying, have a good day
Ron

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Permalink Reply by Edwin Muir on October 15, 2009 at 4:13am

I am just glad that the prophet(though a hard case) didnt worship the donkey just because it spoke humbly to him or let him ride on it.
Natural, supposed goodness, is still only refined pride Finney wrote and I agree.Judas accompanied *JESUS* yet was impure finally.

Numbers 22. 27 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.
28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.
We are not comparing papists or christians (Nice or not nice)we are talking doctrines of demons we must warn of just as Paul did,or have thier blood on our hands.
1Tim 4.1 to 6 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good

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