All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
proving the bible?
How can a person prove to others the bible's not some "man made book corupted by man"? For those who believe it's God's word but it's been corupted over the years.
And, what do I do if I tell someone a doctrine (the deity of Christ), that it's in the bible but I get a comment "Than the bible's wrong!"
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I liked this answer LT. Yes, it was simple but He takes that which is foolish & makes it wise & that which is wise & they become foolish. I feel the Lord made it very simple for us. We are the ones that complicate it.
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Permalink Reply by The evidence based Stig on
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I'm happy for you 2, that you could simply pick up the Bible and believe. I couldn't, I had further questions before I could trust what I was reading and I am not alone in this. One being how could I be sure that this hadn't been altered over time or indeed just made up. That led me to looking at the resurrection in more detail then God revealed himself to me and I gave my life to him. But he waited until I had the answers that I sought.
I may get mocked by certain people for my approach but I feel it was vindicated when a teenager came up to me and asked what the evidence for the resurrection was. I laid out the basics and after wards he said "thank you, I've not found anyone who could answer my question until now" That was a damning indictment of the church that someone could not get answers about the most fundamental claim of the Christian faith.
I cannot hold to a faith that does not require evidence, you can believe what you want if that was the case, never mind not being able to discern what is true and what isn't. I read books by the likes of N.T Wright, John Lennox etc. because I'm open enough to acknowledge my interpretation or answer may not be correct. It's helped me address questions like above and even help a sister in Christ who was struggling with questions she was being asked by atheists. Just because a question comes from an atheist, doesn't mean it's invalid and neither is their request for evidence.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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You are missing the whole point. Evidence will never cause faith. It is that simple. One can only have faith if God has opened the person's eyes. There is nothing wrong with phyiscal evidence, but in the end it will not cause anyone to get saved. It can be used in the process by God, but is not necessary. In the end it cannot be based on only the evidence alone with one simply weighing facts and makings an intellectual decision based on the facts.
Grazer, did that teenager get saved becasue you shared the evidence?
Grazer, do people get saved without the evidence when they hear the simple gospel?
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I have no idea if he was saved but he might go on to be, I have no idea. I have never claimed people are saved by evidence, I am saying I needed evidence before I was ready to say yes to Christ.
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It actually wasn't the Bible I picked up & believed. It was Salvation that someone told me about & I totally believed. I didn't run to Israel to see if it was true. I didn't run to the tomb to see if it was empty. I knew. One question: What proof do you have that if you die today, you will be with the Lord one day?
Stig, it appears you're getting defensive a bit. Brother, I told you I totally agreed with your blog that we should be able to discuss things. That's what I've tried to do here & show you the respect you desire & deserve. I've just asked questions because I totally don't understand how you can live on faith with one thing but have to have proof of another. I am just trying to understand. I've met one other young man with the same beliefs & I just want to understand.
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What proof do you have that if you die today, you will be with the Lord one day?
Cos the bible tells me so and I know it not to have been changed based on the evidence I have for that - plus I trust Jesus because of my experience of him.
I apologise if I seem defensive, think I've taken on too much again (have several running topics at the moment)
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I totally understand. Been there done that. I'm still there & still do that. lol. There are so many times I have to run back & delete comments I've made because they were all about me desiring to be "right" & not about seeking truths. You & I discussed this so you know we good.
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Permalink Reply by feet breath on
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Thank you dear brother and sister! They need the simplicity of the gospel I'm just not sure how to share it. That and I'm not sure what to say exactly when the discussion of the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. I found out dad believes the Holy Spirit is an active force. Someone on t.v mentioned going to heaven by his own good works. I commented how that was wrong, it's only Jesus is gets a person to heaven. My dad was suprised when I said that. /Please pray he comes to Christ....
Ok, I realize my problem. I don't know how to start out the conversation for the gospel. Now if something gets brought up, like the t.v incident, than that can trigger me to say something (I basicly seem to not think too well when I'm actually speaking-I can say something but my brain can't seem to control when to stop too well). My mouth talks but it's mainly just rambling on facts and not thinking how to control myself.
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There are many excellent ways of learning to share the gospel. Two that I would recommend you looking into are "Share Jesus Without Fear" and "The Way of the Master." I have used the first one often. It relies on the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. If they reject both they are not ready to be saved.
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I was listening to Chip Ingram yesterday "Living On the Edge" & he was talking about going to lunch with an evangelist. They got on the elevator & a lady was on there. The evangelist smiled & said hello & then which I missed.I ran to turn up the radio but didn't quite make it. I think it was as simple as "Do you know my Jesus?" or "Jesus Loves You". Chip said he about crawled into his pocket but he said he had never seen no one as captivated by a person as she was him. She told him, if you only knew what I have been going through lately. Chip thought she was going to hit the evangelist but instead melted. The Spirit goes before us & prepares the heart. It's not your words but your obedience. He'll take care of the rest.
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Amen.
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You are similar too Doubting Thomas
That's the biggest compliment anyone has ever paid me.
Thomas viciously loyal and courageous (below taken from http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/doubting-thomas-faq.htm)
When the other disciples tried to keep Jesus from going to Bethany to raise Lazarus from the dead because of the danger from those in the area who had just earlier tried to stone Him (John 11:8), Thomas said to them, "Let us also go, that we may die with Him" (John 11:16). Thomas also asked Him one of the most famous questions. John 14:5-6 says, "Thomas said to him, 'Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?' Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"
Yes he doubted, he questioned but Jesus allowed him to face those doubts, get the evidence he needed and helped bring him to a place where he could make that powerful statement "My Lord and my God"
But that passage that regarding Thomas doubting is very often mis-understood. It's taken as Jesus saying "blessed are those who don't need evidence" But Jesus says no such thing. How many of us have actually seen Jesus? How many of us were actually there with the disciples?
Many don't seem to go on and read the very next verse in John 20:
Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
In other words, these are evidences upon which faith can be based. John Lennox does a brilliant talk on Doubt - http://www.rzim.eu/doubt-training-day-oxford-audio
Luke open his account saying pretty much what John does:
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly accountfor you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
If God did not want us to have evidence, he would not have given us the Bible in the first place.
Many have been able to just read the Bible and believe. I would argue that, on the basis of the above, that constitutes as evidence. Many others however, including me, have needed a little extra before believing (whether the Bible has been altered over time, over evidences for the resurrection etc) Both approaches are evidence based, it's just the amount of evidence we need and as Paul says, "he rewards those who earnestly seek him" (Hebrews 11:6) He gave Thomas what he needed to believe, he gave me what I needed to believe.
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