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proving the bible?
How can a person prove to others the bible's not some "man made book corupted by man"? For those who believe it's God's word but it's been corupted over the years.
And, what do I do if I tell someone a doctrine (the deity of Christ), that it's in the bible but I get a comment "Than the bible's wrong!"
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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check out this discussion:
Is the Bible we used today faithful to the original languages or is it corrupted?
http://www.allaboutgod.net/group/allaboutgodnet/forum/topics/is-the...
Love and blessings to you.
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Permalink Reply by feet breath on
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David, thank you. There's now a twist to this situation.
Ok, mom mentioned some things today. She said the Bible can't lie. She also said "Naturally the Bible's manmade. God didn't come down and write it Himself..." So, apparently if I heard her correctly she believes that the Bible is God's Word (God told them to write it) yet it's "manmade" because man wrote it.
I need to know where she's coming from. I'm really confused. If "the Bible is manmade" has a different deffinition according to mom than that changes alot to this situation.
Does anyone have any advice?
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Breeze,
Your mom is actually pretty close. God did use man to write His Word and there is no lie within it. Yet, the men were not penning their own thoughts. This is the way it is put in Scripture:
2 Pe 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. NIV
So, we see that it was the Holy Spirit that inspired the men to say and write what they wrote. Since Holy Scripture is from the Holy Spirit it cannot contain any lie.
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She said God told them to write it.
It does seem closer than it was before though.
I know it was the Holy Spirit who inspired them to write it. I'm just not sure how to tell mom that. Apparently, she thinks it's manmade because "God didn't come down and write it". Woah, this is complicated...yet things are getting more understood than before.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I would suggest they try proving its NOT true. Let's see how far they get with that one.
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Permalink Reply by dean burrows on
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The strangest thing I find about this proving and disproving is the simple fact that the only historical fact I know to be absolutely true without any discrepency is waht I have done personally in the last hour. Beyond that most historical facts I must have faith in the historians and/or the tellers of the history. Thus belief is a great part "faith". Seeing and hearing.
To otherwise prove or disprove anything is difficult if the recipient has no faith in the conveyor of the message. I mean look across the prairies the world is flat isn't it.
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Permalink Reply by Colby on
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Breezy,
If the Bible is a "man-made book corrupted by man," then it's nothing more than a collection of ancient fairy tales. But, if the Bible was once the Word of God only to became corrupted by man over the centuries through translation errors, then was it really God's Word to begin with? What does that failure to maintain durability and fidelity over time in God's supposed revelation say about a God we believe to be omnipotent, omniscient, and perfect?
The Bible itself makes this audacious claim: "All Scripture is breathed out by God..." (2Tim3:16). We are free to accept or reject this claim at our own peril.
Why does the world, indeed the entire universe exist, and how and by whom did everything come into existence? What is our purpose? Who was he, this man named Jesus, who lived 2,000 years ago in a tiny country on the Middle East, and is called the Christ or Messiah? What did he accomplish in his brief lifetime? Why has this one man had more influence on the shape of world history than any other? Why is it that in this man, so many believe that God reveals himself and accomplishes his purposes for his creation?
You can't get answers to these questions apart from studying the Bible. The Bible is an incomparable and inexhaustible source for knowing Jesus, and the God whom he reveals, as well as his plan for our salvation.
The truth and authority of the Bible is grounded in its origin. The Bible is the Word of God written by men inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit. Because the Bible is sacred scripture that comes from God, it has God's guarantee to be true. The Bible, therefore, which is God's revelation to humanity, is the "constitution" or foundation for Christianity. That is why I read and study it seriously and have come to regard it as the ultimate authority in matters of faith, morals and practice.
The books of the Bible like no other have demonstrated their capacity to challenge human thought for 20 centuries. Those who read the Bible for the first time and do so with a sincere heart and without any sort of pretense will soon realize a profound experience. They will come to realize that what they are reading is inspired by God in a way that no other great literature is. The people, places recorded in it are real and verifiable through other sources, including archaeological and secular historical records. If the claims of miracles performed by Jesus and his resurrection weren't true, this fledgling movement would have quickly died out. Why, if these things weren't true, would so many of the early disciples have become martyrs?
May God's peace, which is greater than we can ever understand, keep guard over our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus,
Colby
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Breezy,
To answer your question, though, with regard to the stubborn and foolish unsaved person with a hardened heart, neither you nor I can "prove" to them that the Bible is the written Word of God faithfully preserved to the present day.
The problem with the unsaved is that they are spiritually blind.
"Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God" (2Cor4:4).
Neither you nor I can cure the spiritual blindness of others, which is required before they can begin to see the Bible as the infallible written Word of God and be led to God's saving grace. Only the Holy Spirit can "open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God" (Acts26:18).
Until then, you must be patient and persistent in prayer. What else can you do (you might well ask)?
"Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence" (1Pet3:15) and "let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone" (Col4:6).
May God's peace, which is greater than we can ever understand, keep guard over our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus,
Colby
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I would suggest they try proving its NOT true. Let's see how far they get with that one.
If the Bible is a "man-made book corrupted by man," then it's nothing more than a collection of ancient fairy tales. But, if the Bible was once the Word of God only to became corrupted by man over the centuries through translation errors, then was it really God's Word to begin with? What does that failure to maintain durability and fidelity over time in God's supposed revelation say about a God we believe to be omnipotent, omniscient, and perfect?
Tammy,Colby that's not as much the problem now. She said the Bible can't lie. That God told them to write it. She thinks it's manmade because man wrote it and God didn't come down and write it. That's what she means by manmade. She believes it's God's word (after all she said the Bible can't lie) and she believes God told them to write it.
It's not as much proving whether or not the Bible is true now. She said God told them to write it and that the Bible can't lie. You see her definition of "manmade" is different than say an atheist's definition.
Mom: It's God's word yet it's "manmade" because "God didn't come down and write it" He told the people what to say.
An atheist: It's "manmade" because people like a bunch of old fishermen wrote the stories years later. They really didn't hear from God (a difference is mom believes God told them yet an athiest doesn't believe God told them to write it).
The problem has been mom's definition is different than when we usually hear people say "the Bible is manmade." See what I mean? So, you could say she believes it's God's word that can't lie, that He told the people what to write. Yet she believes it's manmade, not in the way we're used to hearingthe term "manmade" used. She believes it's manmade because the men had to write it because God "doesn't have hands".
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oh I would say there is not a problem with your mom's thought. As i have pointed out before I purchased a new NIV . Seems man decided that God's word needed to be politically correct. Therefore man rewrote things to reflect those so called corrections.
Now with the help of the Holy Spirit your is right regardless of the man made corrections The Bible can not lie. The Truth still pours out.
I am sorry and do not want to offend yet it is ridiculous to say that todays writings are exactly the same as those originally written. The 1984 and 2011 NIV I have on my desk are proof positive of that. Yet like I said and your mom has said The Bible can not lie. The Truth- God's Trth comes out regardless.
Take it from someone who spent the greater part of his life insisting it was rediculous. Only to have The Holy Spirit show me the reality and Truth. We can not prove to anyone. Each individual most realize on their own
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Dean,
I am going to put a plug in for the new 2011 NIV. The translators are not seeking to be so politically correct but trying to be closer to the original. We sometimes in English use the male gender when a neutral gender is intended. Since those words are added in the original (I think they are labeled as 9999 in the Strong's Concordance) we have to assume sometimes the original. For instance: in 2 Cor 5:17 in the King James you have if any man be in Christ , he is a new creature. It is normal for us that use English to know and understand that means both genders. However, the original Greek did not specify man. You will notice that even the 1984 version is trying to show the difference. I think the 2011 is probably a little closer to the original but I will not argue this issue. We all have a preference but I just want to mention that not everyone thinks that the NIV has sold out to becoming more politically correct.
Blessings.
Roy
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