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Once saved always saved?

Many believe that once you are saved you are always saved and that you cannot lose your salvation or be rejected by God.

What is the scriptural basis for “Once saved always saved”? Does not the responsibility lie with the believer how he/she conduct themselves after initially being saved?

I see many scriptures that say/imply other than once saved always saved:

Old Testament:

Num 14:11 Then the LORD said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?

Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them..."

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.

1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her…"

Pro 2:13 …From those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness…

New Testament:

Joh 17:12 …Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition…

Act 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery…

Act 8:13 …Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done…

Act 8:20 …But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!

Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.

Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

Act 8:23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."

1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

1Pe 4:18 Now "IF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE IS SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?"

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,

Jas 5:20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

2Ti 2:17 …Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,

2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth…

2Ti 2:24 …And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,

2Ti 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

2Ti 2:26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 18, 2011 at 4:03pm

Beloved Misch -

I was under the impression that you did not want to discuss this issue hahahaha i made that comment back two months ago girl, but i guess you feel like fighting today hu? hahaha

>>If we die with unrepented sin, then Jesus dying for us was in vain.

Show me one verse that teaches your conclusion beloved. One verse that says a born again child of God that dies with unrepented sin will be going to hell. You will never find such a verse.

Even the criminals on the crosses on either side of Jesus had a choice to make.

Yes sister, we all have a choice to make. No argument there. I Freely Chose to surrender my life to Christ. I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior and all those that will ever be saved, will have to repent and believe in our King. They must choose God, confess with their mouth and believe with their heart. :)

One chose not to repent and the other one did and Jesus told him that he would be with Him in paradise.

Amen!

Girl! You better watch it cause I too feel like fighting hahaaha hahahha J/K you all.

Love to you beloved.

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Permalink Reply by Jacob Daniel Souchak on April 18, 2011 at 5:43pm

John 10:28&29 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." That says that no man has power to take God's gift of eternal life from us. But man still has the choice to give up that gift.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 19, 2011 at 9:19am

Dude where you been at and how are you? Good to see you in the forum bro.

Ok Jacob you are gonna have to help me here, cause I do not read anywhere in that verse where it says that we have a choice to give up the gift. Instead I see Christ saying:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." "

Any man - Christ is saying - no man can take you out of my hands and then since God knows the heart and mind of men that is always wicked/decieving and always trying to do something (works) to be saved, when salvation is of the Lord, not of works, so no man can boast, He says:

and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

Oh just in case you don't get it people, that there isn't any man that can pluck you out of my hands and that includes you, I will now say - No man is able to.

Not just any man, but no man is able to. Every humanbeing falls into the any man or no man cathegory. We can't pluck ourselves out of the hand of God once God has saved us. No one saves themselves, we are all saved by God and kept saved by him.

Love to you my brother.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 19, 2011 at 11:14am

Context - context - context - context and context will determine the usage of a word beloved.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 19, 2011 at 3:22pm

Ama -

All that you mentioned is right on sis. Reading your post made me shout... for real. I am happy you are familiar with all you wrote and encourage everyone to become acquainted with such practices.

Kudos to you beloved.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 19, 2011 at 11:17am

Now, you know i was only kidding. :)

We are peace makers, hallelujah!!!1

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on April 19, 2011 at 6:14pm

God took His vengeance for my sin (past, present and future) out on the Savior, on the cross. I am 100% certain that this is what scripture says.

I will lose reward for disobedience, I will pay the price of reaping what I sow (if I sow bad seed). But, I am 100% confident that God is not going to retract.

The thing is Michelle, as a believer who understands what Jesus did for me, I don't want to sin. Some folks have accused me of being too literal about issues of holiness. But, I want to do what is pleasing to God.

However, I miss that mark. And so do you, sister. If you don't know that, please go read 1st John. "If we say that we have no sin..."

Do you think the Apostles lived perfectly sinless? Paul says he did not, on more than one occasion in scripture.

Maybe a better question: do you think any of the Apostles went to hell? (besides the obvious one who did not have faith - Judas). I see multiple places where the Apostles sinned against the revealed will of God. Are any of them lost? Did they lose that salvation and have to gain it back?

If I have lost my salvation, what must I do to get it back and keep it?

[note to anyone reading, this is a rhetorical question].

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on April 20, 2011 at 10:15am

Amanda, I think you have caught the matter well.

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on April 20, 2011 at 9:29am

Michelle, thanks for including the scripture and for sharing your story. I'm not attacking you, nor accusing you of failing to be a good enough Christian. That's not my heart at all.

I have never said that we should not pray. However, prayer that is out of duty or fear becomes fruitless. On the contrary, I take the prayers of Jesus to heart. He prayed with a loving relationship to His Father. In fact, it is this model that was instrumental in bringing me to see that I have assurance of this awesome relationship with my father. I come to Him with confidence because He has pledged his everlasting love to me, despite my inability to live a perfect life - because Christ has lived it for me.

Do I want to live a perfect life? I hunger and thirst for it. And by faith, I am learning every day how to deny self and live with the freedom and power of holiness. But that comes by trust in my Savior; meaning that I trust His love is unfailing for me regardless of my level of performance.

When I previously thought and lived in fear and dread of God casting me into hell (if I had committed some sin), my prayer life was not at all based in God's enduring peace and joy. But rather, it was focused on me, trying make sure that I was ok with God. That is not what God wants for us! If you are in Christ, you are okay with God! He wants our prayers to be productive and focused on a deeper relationship, not focused on earning back our right to be at the table.

The fact is that we all need to remain humble and acknowledge that we have sin. Often we do not recognize it. But, humility is antithetical to a works-based relationship with God. It becomes all about you, rather than all about God.

I know that God is my Father. I know that Jesus is my Brother. I know that the Spirit is my Comforter. Do I deserve that? Never. Do I possess that? Always... by faith and by the enduring commitment of Christ in me.

Now, if you (theoretical "you", not Michelle specific "you") are daily having to repent of overt adultery, fornication, lies, murder, blasphemies, stealing and such sins, then you have a bigger problem - because your heart is hardened against God and your life shows that you love darkness. But understand that every time you covet, you have sinned. Every time you lust or inwardly curse someone you have sinned. If you fail to forgive then you have sinned. If you woke up this morning and failed to rejoice in the Lord then you have sinned against God's will for your life.

But, I do not believe that God is keeping accounts of this, ready to toss you into hell at any moment. All of that sin was dealt with at the cross.

Knowing that you are loved, with an everlasting love, gives you heart that has total confidence. The confidence drives you to strive for God.

It's like your kids. If you spend every day reminding them of their failures, they will reward you with repetitious failure and hardness of heart; any success they achieve will be in spite of you. However, if you remind them daily of the esteem you have for them, the love you have for them and the confidence that you have of their ability to succeed - they will strive higher to succeed and they will show you that your love and confidence is well placed.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 5, 2011 at 4:39am

David,

Please check out this discussion: Losing Salvation? http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/losing-salvation

Almost every (if not every) argument was looked at for both sides in the discussion above. I have been discussing this topic for as long as I have been a Christian and I have been on both sides of the fence. I am fully convince that it is impossible, EXTREMLY IMPOSSIBLE, for a born again child of God to lose their born again (son/daughter) status. I am not weary of discussion this topic for every member of the body is important to me, but I think it will blessed you to check out the previous discussion we had about the topic. There are others that as just informative when dealing with the topic.

The topic of OSOS can easily turn into a hot topic, but hot topics should not be avoided. We simply need to stick to the topic without assassinating the character of the people we discuss the topic with. We should learn how to discuss hot topics in love.

It is obvious that some among us will believe that salvation can be lost, while others will believe that God will finish what He started in us by keeping us through correction, love and even by taking our physical life. It is very important that we be established in the truth in both primary and secondary issues and its equally essential to continue to exercise patience, longsuffering and lots of love.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on February 17, 2011 at 1:05pm

Amanda,

I agree with you and scripture supports what you have said here:

LB, I was just under the impression that everyone is born in sin, with a sin nature, and since we are born as babies...well the logic follows.

I believe that mormons teach that everyone is born pure. Scripture doesn't agree. I know this because the lady who teaches my bible study used to be a mormon, and she tells us these false teachings to watch out for.

First of all, prior to sin entering Creation, we learn that we are made in God's image:

Genesis 1:26

²⁶Then God said, "Let ^(A)Us make ^(B)man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them ^(C)rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

now people are in Adam's image Genesis 5:3:

³When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he ^[a]became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.

Seth was not born in God's image, but in Adam's image.

This sets the stage for sinful humanity since we are all born from Adam.

David says this of himself in psalm 51:5:

⁵Behold, I was ^(A)brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

In Romans 3:23 we are told that 'all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

We would have to logically come to the conclusion that this also includes babies.

However, we know the character of God, and that He is good. We know He is Just and Merciful. Even though the bible does not teach an age of accountability, we do have this scripture to encourage us:

2 Samuel 12:21-23

²¹Then his servants said to him, "What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food."

²²He said, "While the child was still alive, ^(X)I fasted and wept; for I said, '^(Y)Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.'

²³"But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? ^(Z)I will go to him, but ^(AA)he will not return to me."

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 7, 2011 at 8:39pm