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Once saved always saved?
Many believe that once you are saved you are always saved and that you cannot lose your salvation or be rejected by God.
What is the scriptural basis for “Once saved always saved”? Does not the responsibility lie with the believer how he/she conduct themselves after initially being saved?
I see many scriptures that say/imply other than once saved always saved:
Old Testament:
Num 14:11 Then the LORD said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?
Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them..."
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.
1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her…"
Pro 2:13 …From those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness…
New Testament:
Joh 17:12 …Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition…
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery…
Act 8:13 …Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done…
Act 8:20 …But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
Act 8:23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 Now "IF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE IS SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?"
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
2Ti 2:17 …Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth…
2Ti 2:24 …And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Brent,
Before making such a wide-brush statement that is inaccurate about what others believe and why, especially when trying to apply it to all equally, I would encourage you to read the various forums on AAG regarding this topic, both for clarity and depth. There are many of us who believe in etrnal security, are born-again, accountable to Him, seek to serve Him and understand divine discipline when we stray from His path, but that discipline does not include loss of salvation.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Brent,
It is very difficult to offend me. I am not in the least bit offended by your comment, but am addressing it for clarity.
Sorry, but this was a very wide brush. You open your comment with calling it a theory, implying that all who believe in it are in error, and then simply use your view of it as a theory to attempt to dismiss it without really addressing the issues, to the exception of the same old argument that most raise which inaccurately protrays the true beliefs of born-again people who accept in eternal security as true.
You will be hard pressed to find a true child of God who believes in eternal security using it as a blanket to do whatever they want as your statement implies.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Brent,
I do not rest on the fact that I once had faith, but that in that moment of faith that I surrendered unto Christ I was born-again, changed, transformed. This is the work of God. I once was not a child of God, but now am. This not of myself, but is the work of God. We have been bought at a price, we have been sealed and marked. This new life is by grace through faith. My hope is in God who has secured this for those who are born-again.
God gives you the freedom to think you can lose your salvation. Scripturally I believe you are wrong in this case. Regarding those living in sin there are two possibilities, not one. Yes, there are those who are never born-again, but only live according to a religous code. There are also those who fall into sin through weakness or rebellion. These individuals face divine discipline (Hebrews 12) and to this I speak from experience as well.
We could debate this, but before we get into too much detail I again refer you to read through the half-dozen or so forms on this topic.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Two scriptures come to mind:
"...do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?" (Romans 2:4)
"3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy." (Titus 3:3-5)
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Brent,
You asked these questions:
Which would create incentive for a believer to travel the straight and narrow road to salvation ?
1. God giving you the freedom to think you could lose your way?
2. God giving you the freedom to think that you already got there?
The incentive to travel the straight and narrow is the reliazation that i am a sinner, and i need a Saviour. This has been my realization from the moment i saw Jesus for who He is. A person will not likely come to a saving faith until they realize they have sinned against the only True God, Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier He is Perfect and Holy Holy Holy...we are not! The faith that gives you strength to walk and even run is a gift from Him. He is the author of our Salvation, He is the Aplha and the Omega.. the beginning and the end. He began this good work in you and He will finish it. He will not let us go, and nothing can ever separate us from His Love. Your works cannot save you..although you will be rewarded for them when you are with the Lord. You are saved by Grace and Grace alone...through faith (remember the faith is a gift from God). You do not have to perform for God or ever be good enough for Him to save you.. if that were true than you would be Saviour and not Jesus. The good works we do as children of God flow out of our Love for Him, and thankfulness for all He has done. we do not do these works so that we maintain our Salvation.. we have nothing to boast about ...but Christ alone.
This is for His Glory. Blessings, Carla
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Amanda, trust in God your Savior. Turn to Him not with proof of your perfection but with humility accepting that you are powerless without Him. In realizing this, He gives you the power to overcome and be victorious.
The path to the defeated life is the one where you try to live it in your strength. Repentance is acknowledging that you cannot be "good enough" and recognition that you desperately need your Savior. This is what it means to "reckon yourselves to be dead to sin". You come to a place where you know you cannot live in your own strength, but only by His.
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Amanda,
I have trouble seeing it as simple as this.
The Bible teaches us that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. This salvation cannot be earned, nor can it be retained by works. Yet, there is a right way to live to please God once we have become a child of God. When we fall away and walk in disobedience, as a child of God, we can expect to face discipline. This is the simple truth of Scripture. Now, with that before us, we have to decide if we are going to take God at His Word and believe Him.
1) There are some who do not know Him and yet have bought into religion and seek to live by a code. Everything about their religious experience is performance based. 2) Then there are some who accepted Jesus by faith and have been influenced by others into seeking to remain saved based on performance. They know Him, but their joy is stripped away by the burden that has been tied around their necks. 3) There are some who play the game and absolutely know that they don’t know Him and don’t really care. 4) There are some who are born-again and live in the freedom that Christ has given us and serve Him because we love Him.
The church, institution, is full of all types of people and this simply leads to confusion. In reality the key to our Christian life is the fact that it is relational first. We have a real relationship with the living God.
How could you really know for sure which one you are?
Confidence in the Word affirmed by the Holy Spirit is the only way I know that people know that they are saved. It is not what people say about you that matters. What matters is what God and His Word says about you that matters.
I feel I have lived by a religious code but only because I thought it was God's will for me and I was being obedient to Him as far as I knew how to be. I also feel I was born again at a young age and fell away and then reconciled and followed that religious code, only to fall away again more recently.
Performance based religion will always fail you because you and I will always fail to measure up while we are still trapped in this earthly flesh. There is a right way and a right reason to live that way.
At the present I still feel I am not living for Him. I find it hard to feel forgiven. I do accept eternal security. Assurance of salvation is something different.
Seek to stop trusting your feelings and trust God’s Word. Tozer is quoted to have said “There are some days that I do not feel much like a Christian.” Romans 10:9-13 and 1 John 1:9 assures us of forgiveness. 1 John 3:1-2 encourages us to embrace our new standing. The Word says I am forgiven. I need to believe His Word that as a child of God I am forgiven.
So how do you know if your present sin is keeping you from walking closely with God but you are still saved, or if it means the other thing?
Present sin implies current ongoing sin. This will surely hinder your walk and fellowship, but not your salvation. The need here is to repent and cease to engage in anything that would hinder your closeness to God.
I am sorry for what I have done and wish I had not done it. But I also cannot live in sinless perfection.
Do you see a third option/position? One that recognizes that we need to be repentant regarding sin and while perfection is yet to be attained, there is a need to aspire to perfection. One cannot accept that because we cannot achieve perfection that we cease to strive for godliness in this life.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Amanda,
I have not ever been ensared by legalism, but I have worked with many over the years who have. With rare exception it has been a long and difficult process. These people loved the Lord, but were enslaved to the works. You like metaphors. You are like a computer that is undergoing a complete program rewrite in the operating system. The enemy doen't want you free, the world doesn't want you free and your body doesn't want you free. Jesus wants you free and offers that freedom to you.
You have been trained that if you fail that means you are a failure and subject to loss of position in the family. The Bible teaches that when you fail the Father is ready and willing to dust you off because He loves you and you are His child. Legalism requires you to get it right in order for God to come back. Grace tells us that He never left and we simply must align with Him in order to walk closely to him and bring glory to His name.
I do not discount your struggle, but have seen people in your situation come out of the legalism and be free to live for Him because they love Him and know He loves them as His child.
Lastly, I have never stated that God does not expect anything from us. The difference is the why He expects it and the results of aligning with Him. We are called to live the right way for the right reason.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Dawn shared this video here on AAG. I think it is pretty good and worth watching.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Great video LT and Dawn. The truth is so beautiful :)
Blessings family.
Thanks for sharing!
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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AMEN, SCRIBE.
AMEN, CARLA.
Well said, Bro. & Sis.
Grace and Peace.
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Amanda,
You can take steps to change your intake by altering your focus and taking captive thoughts, but the change that you are talking about (walking in grace which includes freedom) is a work of God. Repentance, the change of mind, is a work of God. He opens the eyes to see and the mind to understand. No one believes in God unless He reveals Himself to them. You desire to change, but you must start walking the path according to the light you have been given and as you do He does the miraculous work in you. The mind is fragile. It is the playground of the enemy, it is weak in that it cannot overcome depression on its own, it is influenced by circumstances and input. It is ever changing and being affected, but the goal is to be changed and affected by God.
In the dessert God came to the Israelites by day as a pillar of cloud and at night as a pillar of fire. They moved as the cloud/fire moved. They had no idea as to where they were going or how to get there. There goal was to move when God moved and wait when God waited. You are on a journey with God. Trust Him to finish the work that has been started in you.
Lord Bless,
LT
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