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Once saved always saved?
Many believe that once you are saved you are always saved and that you cannot lose your salvation or be rejected by God.
What is the scriptural basis for “Once saved always saved”? Does not the responsibility lie with the believer how he/she conduct themselves after initially being saved?
I see many scriptures that say/imply other than once saved always saved:
Old Testament:
Num 14:11 Then the LORD said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?
Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them..."
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.
1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her…"
Pro 2:13 …From those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness…
New Testament:
Joh 17:12 …Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition…
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery…
Act 8:13 …Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done…
Act 8:20 …But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
Act 8:23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 Now "IF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE IS SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?"
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
2Ti 2:17 …Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth…
2Ti 2:24 …And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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LB,
Romans 7:7-9 says: "For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died."
So Paul is saying he had a sin nature, before he knew what was right or wrong. Scripture is clear that we all began life with an inherited sin nature.
I had lovely babies that are now grown. Every thing they ever did was a wondrous event. But, they were sinners from the beginning.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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LB,
Do you believe Jesus cared what people thought when he appointed Matthew the "tax-collector" or mere fisherman? Jesus had no need to explain His choices to anyone as the Son of God.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LB,
The Bible reveals that Judas did all these things while he was a thief stealing from the money bag of Jesus and the disciples. It implies that he did this thievery repeatedly.
Matthew was a tax-collector and was thus viewed by the Jews as a traitor. He served teh Romans.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by margaret on
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only the Son of God knew judas heart, and gave him the same opportunity as the others. he knew he was not one of his, if he had been he could beg for forgiveness to Jesus and He would have forgave him but yet he did not. as for Jesus choosing his apostales they were just as sinful and wicked as any other rapist or murderer. sin is sin, wether its rape or stealing or adultery. if not Jesus would have found none to choose from. all are guilty, but we humans look at it in a form of or degree of one sin is worse than another. maybe God sees this differently when it comes to sin
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Permalink Reply by Craig Baker on
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Peter always belonged to Jesus. Judas never did belong to Jesus.
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LB,
Judas was not a changed man while walking with Jesus, for the Bible says the following of him:
JN 12:4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages. " 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.
Judas was a thief helping himself to the money bag, ministry money, while appearing to serve Jesus.
The Son of Perdition was called into the group because he was the Son of Perdition (John 17:12).
Food for thought.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Hey LB,
Your point is well taken regarding him not being born-again. I was not attempting to imply he was born-again, but demonstrating how far his heart was from God even while appearing to walk with Jesus.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LB,
You are using personl belief regarding Judas nature before he met Jesus. What does the Bible say?
We know that he was a thief and that he did these things. Jesus knew he was the son of perdition when he called him.
Did Judas become corrupted and ruined while in the very presence of Jesus? Did he lack friendships that were godly and lack prayer while walking with Jesus?
So Judas started out good before he met Jesus and became corrupt while he walked with Jesus. Is that your take on it?
I think you are presuming too much good on the part of Judas.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on
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LT,
Where does Jesus say that He knew Judas was the son of perdition (Hell) even before He called him?
If this is true why did Jesus give Judas so many opportunities to repent, to change his mind, to turn back?
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Sharon,
Several parts to my response. Some of this you know, but I include it all for clarity before the community here.
1) Jesus is God. God is all knowing and sees the beginning from the end. Jesus saw Judas and his actions before the foundations of the earth were laid. This foreknowledge does not necessitate that He caused Judas to act that way. That question is for another discussion. The cause is not as important as simply the knowledge and result.
1. Eph. 1:4;
2. Isa. 46:9-11
2) Jesus knew the prophecies that were to be fulfilled and thus the betrayer was not going to repent no matter what, or Scripture would not have been able to be fulfilled as given. After he is betrayed He prays in John 17 acknowledging His understanding of these things in advance: JN 17:12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
3) Jesus knew who His betrayer was at the table. At time Judas had only been prompted by Satan. Later in John 13 he was entered by Satan.
4) Jesus clearly knew one of them was going to betray Him early in the ministry as revealed in the following verses: JN 6:70 Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.) Now one could argue that John inserted the name afterwards, but we cannot argue that Jesus knew one of the twelve was His betrayer. Being that He is God, even veiled, there is no reason to believe he knew of the event and not the who at this time.
5) If Judas had repented what would be our situation today? If the prophesies associated with Judas had been left unfulfilled we could not trust that Jesus is the Son of God. Every prophecy had to be fulfilled.
6) That leaves “Why did Jesus give Judas opportunity to repent?” Why does God give man today the opportunity to repent when He knows who will not? I can only speculate that it is just and grace, as well as for our benefit. Adam and Eve sinned against God, God did not fail man. Judas rejected Jesus and fulfilled the prophecies thus fulfilling Scripture. What other outcome could there have been according to Scripture?
This is not as clear as I would usually like to lay it out, but the basics of it are there.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Sharon,
I believe that LT is referring to John chapter 13...but I may stand corrected.
Blessings, Carla
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