All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Losing Salvation?
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If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
LOSING YOUR SALVATION -http://robertwells.tripod.com/losingsalvation.html
YOU CAN'T LOSE YOUR SALVATION OR HAVE IT TAKEN AWAY BUT.......
When you were saved you turned to God. Turning to God means the you have committed your life to trusting and obeying God. In John 1:6-7 it says, "If we claim to have fellowship with Him, yet we walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son, purifies us from all sin."
According to this text, "If we walk in the darkness, then we do not live by the truth." If our heart is not repentant when we sin, if our attitude is one of disobedience to the Laws and Commandments of God, if we turn away from God, if we live a life of sin, if we decide the effort to lead a Godly life is not worth it, if the actions of our lives indicate that we no longer desire to be one of God's children, then we don't lose our salvation, and salvation isn't taken from us, but we through our own free will, take our salvation and give it back to God. We tell God we don't want it. We give it up!!!
Ezekiel 3:20 "If the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die".
If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
So ask yourself this question. What is the only way to gain eternal salvation? There are a great many verses that tell us the answer. Below are just two of them:
Ephesians 2:8-9 "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God's gift."
1Peter 1:5 "Those who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
God makes salvation completely available through Jesus Christ - and not only to specific individuals, but to all who will receive and believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus made this very clear when he said, "Whoever believes in me would not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) The word "whoever" includes everybody. No person is excluded from the opportunity to believe and receive everlasting life.
Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are committing those sins mentioned in the above paragraph, then you simply don't believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions, certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
In other words you can not walk in the darkness unrepentant and still hold onto your salvation. Keep in mind that repentance is much more than stopping the very act of committing those sins that you are asking forgiveness for. Repentance is actually the act of turning away from doing those sins, of not committing them anymore, of changing your life in such a way as you no longer want or desire to commit those sins. You are the one who decides whether to walk in the light or the darkness. God gave you the free will to make your own choices. If you decide to walk in the darkness then your salvation will not be taken away from you, nor will you lose your salvation. No, what you will do is give up your salvation. You will be telling God that your salvation "is not worth the effort it takes to walk in the light". That you do not wish to have his gift of eternal salvation. That you want to make it through this life on your own without any help from God. That you will follow the ways of the world rather than the ways of our Lord. So your own free will determines whether you are going to keep your salvation or give it up. God allows your eternal future to be in your own hands.
Since your own free will is what determines your eternal destiny, then it is very important to note that God will not force anyone to come to him. He is not going to get down on his knees and beg you to believe him, trust him, or accept him. Nor will he force you to love him or demand your obedience. The choice is up to each one of us whether to surrender our lives and our hearts to God or to refuse his love and his blessings. If you don't want any part of Jesus Christ then he is willing to accept that decision since it was made by you through your own free will.
Our Lord did tell us that once we are saved, once we are looking to him for everything, once we have surrendered completely to him, then no one could snatch us away from him.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
So you can't be snatched way, but you sure can walk away.
There are a great many examples of this in the Bible but my favorite is in the book of Mark. It has to do with the story about the time Jesus arrived by boat to a town where he met a demon possessed man who was living in a graveyard. (You can read the entire story in Mark 5:1-21, and it is a great example of people exercising their free will and possibly putting their eternal salvation in jeopardy).
The Bible mentions that this demon possessed man was unusually fierce and dangerous, so much so that the townspeople could not even use the roads in fear that they would be harmed or even killed by this demon possessed man. The demons who resided in this man recognized Jesus and even talked with Jesus, and they knew that Jesus had the power to expel them from the man. So the demons seeing a herd of pigs in the distance, told Jesus that if he was going to expel them from this man, then would Jesus allow the demons to enter into the herd of pigs. So Jesus expelled the demons and the demons left the man and entered into the pigs. Suddenly the pigs realized something was terribly wrong and every single pig rushed over the cliff to their death. The pigs evidently realized that they would rather be dead than to have those demons living within them.
Now the pig herders saw all this happening and they went to the town and told everyone all the details. Verse 17 tells of the townspeople response. "Then the people began to beg Jesus to leave their area." So the response of the townspeople was to tell Jesus to get out of there because they were holding Jesus responsible for the destruction of a whole herd of pigs. They were furious at Jesus because of this economic loss. All that these people could do was to scream at him because they no longer had this herd of pigs. So you can see that the people's only concern was the economic loss of the pigs.
What is really interesting is Jesus's response.
Jesus didn't try to explain to the townspeople that they no longer had to worry about this very dangerous demon possessed man. That he was no longer a threat to their safety. Nor did Jesus ask them if they wanted to know why this formerly demon possessed man was now able to sit there quietly, fully dressed, and in his right state of mind. Nor did he try to tell them that if he could expel demons from this man, then just think of the demons that he could expel from the rest of the townspeople. Neither did Jesus ask the people if they wanted to find out more about this man who could expel demons or why he even did what he did, or why he even came there in the first place. And Jesus certainly didn't argue with the people that the price of the pigs was rather small compared to their peace of mind and their eternal future. Jesus didn't even ask these people if they wanted to learn about the one who sent him. Jesus didn't do any of these things because he could see that the only thing any of these people really cared about was the economic loss of the pigs. They had their minds all made up and money was the number one thing in their lives. They exerted their free will and told Jesus to leave town and leave town now. They had exercised their free will.
Using their own free will, those people wanted nothing to do with Jesus. Their only interest was in worldly things and because of that, they told Jesus to hit the road and go some place else and kill pigs. Jesus knew exactly what was in their hearts, and that their minds were closed to anything that Jesus had to say. So what did Jesus do? Jesus simply turned around, boarded the boat and proceeded across the water and went into his own city. Without a word, he simply turned and left, and very possibly took with him their eternal salvation.
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit".
John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".
1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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If the test is failed, their faith is proved not genuine. Jesus gives us a picture of this in the parable of the Sower. Notice:
Lk 8:11-15
11 "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop. NIV
Those who are represented by rocky soil would have every appearance of salvation. That is why the necessity of the trials. The trials come so that your faith can be proved genuine not fake. You can easily fool me and maybe even yourself, but you cannot fool God. When the great testing comes, there will be many that will fall away. However, the elect will never fall away.
Those that fall away will not be accepted.
Roy -
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Amanda,
There are two possibilities regarding a person who has professed Christ and wanders away. They either embraced Him intellectually only and never experienced the change that occurs and thus they remained lost and were living for and serving a religion or they were born-again and have fallen into rebellion at which God will respond by applying divine discipline as described in Hebrews 12. Divine discipline is not necessary for the obedient, but the rebellious.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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Amanda,
Take some time and read over John 13:1-17. Pay close attention to what is going on and especially to the words of Jesus regarding the washing of only the feet at this point. Later I will come back and address this particular passage in more detail, but for now I am trusting the Holy Spirit to impact you regarding the wonderful truth found in this passage regarding be clean (forgiven).
Lord BLess,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Amanda,
hahaha ohhh what joy, what joy. God is good my sis. hahaha I tell you He makes me smile and burst out in laughter often as I consider His ways. I am so blessed by your loving ways sis and your desire to learn and die to self to allow Him to shine through you. I see Him in your life, you are certainly shinning. A teachable attitude is so pleasing to Him and such a blessing to the body of Christ.
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. Matthew 7:7
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. James 1:5
LT you rock dude. -
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Amen sis Amanda,
My joy comes exactly from what you have described. The Lord has given you more light. I was simply rejoicing with you. The word says to rejoice with those that rejoice and to mourn with those that mourn, nothing else to it. My heart simply rejoiced when I read your post and I just wanted to expressed that joy. Nothing more, nothing less.
That makes me high. It places a smile on my face. Ohhh how I love when I read the word and its better than honey. Better than any novel or movie or song. I mean you are there crying as they stone Stephen. I am always blessed when the intellect is lovingly engaged in the Spiritual nourishment from above.
There is nothing, I mean nothing compares to the one on one interaction and teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit. God has given us teachers, pastors etc... for the edifying of the body as well. Being in Chirst is so beautiful.
We are called to love God with ...all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your MIND'
Blessings. -
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Hallelujah!!!
Sister Amanda. Amen to all you said. :)
Love back at you. -
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Linda Ruth,
He already has. You do not need anything more except faith that He has done everything necessary unto your salvation. You are still trying to do it for yourself. He struggled to do what He did. He cried with bitter tears to escape the punishment that was about to be dished out upon Him. He cried out, "Lord, is there any other way?"
Unfortunately, there was not. Why? Because of your sin. You are so full of terrible, nasty sin that He had no choice but to submit Himself to this horrible death. However, when He said, "It is finished," that is exactly what did happen. Your filthy sin was completely paid for. We need to be so thankful for what He has done for us. The greater our sin, the more He has done. He is the propitiation of our sin. In other words, He is the atoning sacrifice. God's demands are completely satisfied in His act.
You are absolutely correct when you say it is all of Him and nothing of yourself. That is nothing less than absolute praise to His glory. HE wanted to do it all for us. He does not want us to think there is anything left for us to do. We need to put our complete faith and trust in Him and nothing in ourselves.
I give Him ALL the glory, ALL the honor, ALL the praise. When I fail, I just praise Him all that much more, for in my horrible condition of weakness, His sacrifice is made perfect - no flaws, no deficiencies - absolutely perfect. He is the Savior of my soul. I am weak and helpless. I cannot save myself. My trust is in Him 100% and nothing in me.
Praise His Name forever and ever. I will never stop praising Him from right now throughout all eternity. I will be the loudest in the choir. I will lift my voice to the heavens. I will gladly state to all that He is my Savior, the Rock of my salvation. There will be no pretending there by me. I will openly admit my weakness and proudly proclaim His strength. Because of Him, I am saved. If I don't do this, the rocks will cry out and never let it be said that the rocks had to cry out because of my lack of praise. Amen.
Roy -
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Family -
I went to prison for an armed robbery I got careless doing and got arrested on my way home already. This was 18 years ago, I had become Overconfident- The judge let me have the fullness of the law, because I was going to college and had an office job at the time and no need to be doing what I was doing. I was training myself to be who I wanted to be. My thing was robbing dope dealers and beating a system that had been designed to stop what I was doing. I got away from a couple of high speed pursuits, which included helicopters following me. I had an entirely black Cadillac Seville with a V8 at almost hot rod condition; I changed the fuel injectors to make sure it would fly and often injected my fuel with nitro. So am I showing off here of what a great idiot I was, no, bear with me, I am going somewhere with this. My thing was the challenge, wow how I looked for the next challenge, for the adrenaline rush.
One day as a minister of the Gospel my enemy said this to me: You only left that life because you went to prison, you like challenges but you could not stop doing coke on your own or change yourself. You are weak and have no will power of your own. At the time I was living in holiness, being tempted by women who were physically way beyond what a regular dude like me attracts, so I would laugh and trip how my enemy would never give up fighting me. A tone of other things came my way, all sorts of temptations. I was practically living in the church I belonged to at that time. I was in an extremely active church that had a bible institute and an extremely busy schedule, there was something happening daily. . I was doing everything at church and loving it, but I learned that serving God is beautiful if you are able to abide in the word. Is not good to also spread one's selIf in too many ministries. I was by the grace of God able to stand against everything demons were tossing at me. I never speak of these things for whatever we do we do for the Lord but I think this is the appropriate context to bring God glory. My abiding in the word diminishes drastically as I found myself preparing sermons and Sunday school lessons. I was no longer feeding myself and the blow that set me up for the fall was a time of dryness, God was not speaking to me through the word, a time to learn to depend on what I already know, not on feelings or emotions even when the assault/temptations are many and very powerful ones. I was to stand in what my Lord had already established in me. At this point is when demons approached me and challenged me. I was weak by not feasting on the word and vividly remember getting up from my bed and standing in front of the mirror telling the demons to come on with it, to come on and not hold back. To come on with it to do their thing, and not to send me little demons, but to send me the toughest ones, matter of fact forget that don't send me no demons, you come yourself, you Satan you come against me and we go at it. I am sure he was no were near when I said that and i am sure the demons had a good laugh. I will go back to the mud and the vomit and I will show you what a mere mortal can do. Yes this dude took the bite; Satan had beaten me at that point already. I was talking to Him. I have no business talking to demons, He got me, the one thing i could not resist, a challenge. I have never enjoyed challenging peple, that was not my thing, but challenging my self. How far could I go, how good could I get beatng the system. I then address my Lord and told him, you know how I hate the fact that coke beat me, that I was not man enough to let it go. Allow me to do this; I need to do this for me, for David. I had never heard God speak so clearly when He told me NO! don't, stand. With tears running down my face I told Him, i hear you and if I died in the process so be it. I love you but I got to do this for me, so I can know what the process of restoration is and to also know I can beat myself and the forces of evil. I need this for my manhood. To make a long story short I got my butt kicked. I ended up in my car ready to drive of a cliff because I would rather die than to continue to be the reason that caused others to blaspheme the name of the Lord because of me. Self and demons had their laugh. I remember seeing them in the corner of my room laughing at me as I also put a 38 on my head. God would not allow me to do it though; I would have been destroyed if it was not because He kept me over and over again. He has kept me this far, He is FAITHFUL, MY LORD IS BEAUTIFUL, HE IS FAITHFUL., WORTHY OF ALL PRAISE. Others were killed in the process to also stop them from bringing blaspheme against his name and are with Him.
I have gone back to the vomit in ways I can't share here. I have done horrible things while intoxicated with women full of demons. This as a born again believer who has seen the hand of God in palpable undeniable ways and yet there I was with a woman full of demons using drugs. I am not going to say more, but my Lord kept me. Demons had every right to destroy me multiple occasions and yet they were not allowed. Only by His grace and mercy am I here. They tried and tried to have demons posses me, but when I would experience them I would fall on my face and cry out to God and I would vomit. I would ask God to get them out of me and I would vomit until everything was out. A child of God can fall into horrible sin for periods of time; years even and die in it. His heart would hate the defeated life he is living, but be allowed for a season or for a long time to experience the consequences of not abiding in the Lord, in Him, in His Word.
God will allow us to have our way for as long as He allows, but family we are no longer our own. We belong to Him, He bought us at cal very and as our creator we also belong to HIm.
Blessings -
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David,
Only by the power of His grace are you saved today. Your testimony gives me evidence that salvation is by grace and by grace alone. You saw the demons laughing but God was right there laughing at the demons. You may not have seen Him but they did and they were scared to death. They knew they could only do what God ordained or allowed them to do. They were nothing more than implements in the hands of an almighty God that was remolding you for His glory. You are a testimony to His glory. Satan himself could have come at you but he would have been defeated. No, you didn't have the power to defeat him, but you had something that was far more valuable. You had a Father that was in absolute complete charge of your life all the way. I know God gives us latitude in our decisions but one way or the other he is going to get you. You said some have died early. That is true, yet they are today with God. The Spirit of the Living God is all over you and there was absolutely no way Satan was going to win that battle.
What you didn't realize was that even in defeat you were victorious. Your faith won the battle. There was no way for you to lose. Your faith has made you whole. Your faith has restored to you your life.
Blessed be the Lord. I read your testimony to my wife this evening. She was blessed. Your life brings glory to God. To God be the glory. Amen. -
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Thank you for your encouraging words my friend. YES, it is by Grace alone.
Blessings to your home.
To God be the Glory forever and ever. -
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Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on
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Hi Michelle,
I've been following the discussions here in this forum that you've initiated - most quietly for I consider myself a baby when it comes to knowledge of Christianity and it's beliefs...
But I read this passage today and I could not help thinking of your concerns:
"But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth DEATH.
Do not be deceived, my beloved BROTHERS. James 1:14-16
This scripture seem to be advising believers ( since they are addressed as 'brothers') about the dangers of fallen into sin that can lead into DEATH. - eternal death, or death of the soul, not the body.
So, if "once saved always be saved" was correct, why would there be a danger of falling into sin? It doesnt make sense, probably because it is wrong. One has work out his salvation and make sure one does not loose it....
Good luck!
Yael -
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