All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Losing Salvation?
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If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
LOSING YOUR SALVATION -http://robertwells.tripod.com/losingsalvation.html
YOU CAN'T LOSE YOUR SALVATION OR HAVE IT TAKEN AWAY BUT.......
When you were saved you turned to God. Turning to God means the you have committed your life to trusting and obeying God. In John 1:6-7 it says, "If we claim to have fellowship with Him, yet we walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son, purifies us from all sin."
According to this text, "If we walk in the darkness, then we do not live by the truth." If our heart is not repentant when we sin, if our attitude is one of disobedience to the Laws and Commandments of God, if we turn away from God, if we live a life of sin, if we decide the effort to lead a Godly life is not worth it, if the actions of our lives indicate that we no longer desire to be one of God's children, then we don't lose our salvation, and salvation isn't taken from us, but we through our own free will, take our salvation and give it back to God. We tell God we don't want it. We give it up!!!
Ezekiel 3:20 "If the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die".
If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
So ask yourself this question. What is the only way to gain eternal salvation? There are a great many verses that tell us the answer. Below are just two of them:
Ephesians 2:8-9 "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God's gift."
1Peter 1:5 "Those who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
God makes salvation completely available through Jesus Christ - and not only to specific individuals, but to all who will receive and believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus made this very clear when he said, "Whoever believes in me would not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) The word "whoever" includes everybody. No person is excluded from the opportunity to believe and receive everlasting life.
Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are committing those sins mentioned in the above paragraph, then you simply don't believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions, certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
In other words you can not walk in the darkness unrepentant and still hold onto your salvation. Keep in mind that repentance is much more than stopping the very act of committing those sins that you are asking forgiveness for. Repentance is actually the act of turning away from doing those sins, of not committing them anymore, of changing your life in such a way as you no longer want or desire to commit those sins. You are the one who decides whether to walk in the light or the darkness. God gave you the free will to make your own choices. If you decide to walk in the darkness then your salvation will not be taken away from you, nor will you lose your salvation. No, what you will do is give up your salvation. You will be telling God that your salvation "is not worth the effort it takes to walk in the light". That you do not wish to have his gift of eternal salvation. That you want to make it through this life on your own without any help from God. That you will follow the ways of the world rather than the ways of our Lord. So your own free will determines whether you are going to keep your salvation or give it up. God allows your eternal future to be in your own hands.
Since your own free will is what determines your eternal destiny, then it is very important to note that God will not force anyone to come to him. He is not going to get down on his knees and beg you to believe him, trust him, or accept him. Nor will he force you to love him or demand your obedience. The choice is up to each one of us whether to surrender our lives and our hearts to God or to refuse his love and his blessings. If you don't want any part of Jesus Christ then he is willing to accept that decision since it was made by you through your own free will.
Our Lord did tell us that once we are saved, once we are looking to him for everything, once we have surrendered completely to him, then no one could snatch us away from him.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
So you can't be snatched way, but you sure can walk away.
There are a great many examples of this in the Bible but my favorite is in the book of Mark. It has to do with the story about the time Jesus arrived by boat to a town where he met a demon possessed man who was living in a graveyard. (You can read the entire story in Mark 5:1-21, and it is a great example of people exercising their free will and possibly putting their eternal salvation in jeopardy).
The Bible mentions that this demon possessed man was unusually fierce and dangerous, so much so that the townspeople could not even use the roads in fear that they would be harmed or even killed by this demon possessed man. The demons who resided in this man recognized Jesus and even talked with Jesus, and they knew that Jesus had the power to expel them from the man. So the demons seeing a herd of pigs in the distance, told Jesus that if he was going to expel them from this man, then would Jesus allow the demons to enter into the herd of pigs. So Jesus expelled the demons and the demons left the man and entered into the pigs. Suddenly the pigs realized something was terribly wrong and every single pig rushed over the cliff to their death. The pigs evidently realized that they would rather be dead than to have those demons living within them.
Now the pig herders saw all this happening and they went to the town and told everyone all the details. Verse 17 tells of the townspeople response. "Then the people began to beg Jesus to leave their area." So the response of the townspeople was to tell Jesus to get out of there because they were holding Jesus responsible for the destruction of a whole herd of pigs. They were furious at Jesus because of this economic loss. All that these people could do was to scream at him because they no longer had this herd of pigs. So you can see that the people's only concern was the economic loss of the pigs.
What is really interesting is Jesus's response.
Jesus didn't try to explain to the townspeople that they no longer had to worry about this very dangerous demon possessed man. That he was no longer a threat to their safety. Nor did Jesus ask them if they wanted to know why this formerly demon possessed man was now able to sit there quietly, fully dressed, and in his right state of mind. Nor did he try to tell them that if he could expel demons from this man, then just think of the demons that he could expel from the rest of the townspeople. Neither did Jesus ask the people if they wanted to find out more about this man who could expel demons or why he even did what he did, or why he even came there in the first place. And Jesus certainly didn't argue with the people that the price of the pigs was rather small compared to their peace of mind and their eternal future. Jesus didn't even ask these people if they wanted to learn about the one who sent him. Jesus didn't do any of these things because he could see that the only thing any of these people really cared about was the economic loss of the pigs. They had their minds all made up and money was the number one thing in their lives. They exerted their free will and told Jesus to leave town and leave town now. They had exercised their free will.
Using their own free will, those people wanted nothing to do with Jesus. Their only interest was in worldly things and because of that, they told Jesus to hit the road and go some place else and kill pigs. Jesus knew exactly what was in their hearts, and that their minds were closed to anything that Jesus had to say. So what did Jesus do? Jesus simply turned around, boarded the boat and proceeded across the water and went into his own city. Without a word, he simply turned and left, and very possibly took with him their eternal salvation.
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit".
John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".
1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rodney M Hall on
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Thanks for taking the time to post this Michelle. I personally think that this is a very good subject to discuss and learn from. I was raised in the Quaker church. For anyone that is not familiar with this denomination I can some sum it up very quickly. The Quakers believe in the Bible and that Godis who he says he is and that Jesus did come to the earth to die for our sins and then was reserected.(Please note: The Quakers are not affiliatd in any way to the Mormons or Jehovah Witness.) In other words, its the same as the other denominations; except one.
The Quakers believe that you can "Fall from Grace." in other words, they believe the same that Michelle has posted above. And personally, it does make sense to me because of the free will. I can't imagine that being a one sided option.
But since my childhood, I have gone to several different churches and denominations. The reason that I have tried other churches is because my parents moved us across the country and there was a significant difference in the Quaker churches. The ones that I grew up in were full of life, where as the ones where I live now are litterally dieing. being an immature Christian, I needed to be in church that would help me grow. So the search started.
On more than one occasion, my wife and Children and I ended up in a Baptist church. And before I go any further, I need to say that is where we are now. But this is where I heard the phrase "Once Saved Always Saved." AndI will be honest. It relly did blow me away. So what did I do? I asked the leaders what it meant.
They told me that it meant that once you asked Jesus into your heart that you were saved. Done deal. So I asked them what about the ones that make that decision and do not live the way that God wants us to. And almost all answered, "Well then they probably weren't ever saved to begin with."
So as you can imagine, this threw me for a loop. How could you sincerly ask Jesus into your heart and it not "take?" Because of that response, I still struggle with the once saved always saved belief.
What it does is make me wonder if the reason for that belief is because as Christians we understand that an etenity in hell would be far worse than we can ever imagine. Thus making the once saved always saved belief a sense of peace.
Now please don't missunderstand what I am saying. That was just a thought that I had. I do understand that I could be totally wrong with that assumption.
The thing that makes this subject so important is that the eternal future could of some be at stake. Because I have seen both sides, I am torn. But I do look forward to reading the responses of those that understand this complex subject better than I.
God Bless -
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Not all pentecostals believe you can lose your salvation.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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LT is correct -
I have fellowship only in Pentecostal churches as a member, that is where God has guided me so far. Of course I visit my family in Christ that holds to the essentials of Christianity, regardless of the denominational name they are under.
So I am Pentecostal, but do not hold to some secondary issues most Pentecostals hold to. I was extremely blessed not to have a religious back ground when God called me. His word was and is my map. I was a clean canvas, where the Bible and not denominational doctrines mandated my walk and beliefs. -
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Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on
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When you mention that 'not all pentecostals believe you can lose your salvation', if the Pentecostal 'teachings' reject the once saved always saved concept, can some-one who is not in agreement with such a fundamental issue call themselves pentecostal?
Seems to me like a Jew saying that he/she does not agree with Mosaic law!
Please, could you clarify?
Thanks! -
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Yael,
It is quite simple. The statement you are questioning was in response to one stating that Pentecostals believe you can lose your salvation when in fact not all Pentecostals believe that you can lose your salvation.
Can some one who disagrees on this issue call themselves a "pentecostal?" The answer is yes and in fact they do.
Regarding the Mosaic Law. Do you believe all Jews believe the same exact thing regarding the Mosaic Law? Do believe that all Jews interpret the Law exactly the same?
Lord BLess,
LT -
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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LT,
Having been raised in the Pentecostal church, I personally know several that do believe in the security of the believer. Even though I am no longer a Pentecostal, they are still my best friends. However, I can remember the day when almost all of them rejected the idea. I don't know how many times I got saved as a young man in the Assembly of God church. We kids got saved at every camp which happened every year. That was in Kansas but I think that was pretty representative of the country. We have all come a long way and are continuing to grow in our knowledge and understanding of His Word. Good teaching.
Roy -
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Hi LT,
No, I don't think that all Jews are in agreement in everything. But they call themselves different names when they are not in accordance with one another...
I guess what I was trying to say is really just this: If you are a Pentecost you should believe in what Pentecosts believe. Otherwise, why be a Pentecost? Surely, as I can see, there are other Churches that believe Once Save Always saved...and so forth.... -
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Yael,
Thank you for clarifying. My response to your question is that the are many groups who call themselves Pentecostal and yet they have different beliefs regarding many doctrines.
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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My dearest sister Mitchelle,
I love the fact that God has been given you the boldness to get on the Forums and blessed us with topics, articles and challenging views. YOU BLESSED ME BELOVED. SO MANY ARE SILENT READERS ONLY AND I AND THANKFUL FOR THEM AS WELL, But you sister are in here discussing this so very important issues with us, for that I have nothing but respect and love for you.
It is so cool. I wish many more would bless us with their insights.
Acts 17:11 (New International Version)
11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true
Know that I encourage you to do as the Bereans and examine everything sis. This is a secondary issue, an important one, but secondary. We can have differences in such issues and still be one in the household of OUr LOrd, Hallelujah - Much love to you!
Keep researching and asking and sharing....
Press on gentle warrior -
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Hey Michelle,
I agree with what David has said. Especially understanding the concept of secondary issues. We can disagree on those issues and still walk as brothers and sisters in love for the Lord and one another.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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That’s an interesting thought, David.
On the other hand, Jews don't believe they are 'saved once and for all'. Jesus said, as far as my limited knowledge of the Christian faith allows me comment, that 'he did not come to abolish the old, but to fulfil it'. So, how can one be saved once and for all? How about free will? How about evil temptations?
Abraham was justified at least 3 times in the OT, which proves that we are always evolving to a higher level of holiness. The more advanced we become, the closer to God we get.
Keeping the law is crucial ( the Decalogue). unlike Mr Martin Luther believed, the 10 commandments are forever!!! Break them and you are in trouble. So, how can Jesus, who said it himself to have come to fulfil the Old, simply change such a crucial thing?
I am sorry, but I agree with the poster. God would never take our free will to do good or evil. AND in doing evil we fall short, and unless true repentance takes place, one is out of grace.
NOW, as an 'outsider' the sticking thing to me is that it seems that Christians are allowed to disagree in pretty much everything except that Jesus was God and that you have to confess faith in him to be a Christian and a couple of other things…
However, I must admit I am surprised that an important issue such as how Salvation takes place can be really considered Secondary… I would think that this is a fundamental thing for any system of belief. Isn’t it? And yet, you and others seem ok with the fact that there is disagreement on this important matter.
It seems to me that the understanding of having only the scriptures to guide Christians and no other authoritative guidance could be your downfall, for there will be, if there aren’t already, so much schism that Christianity may end up disfigured...
I was just watching this video some one posted here about false spirits, or being ‘drunk in the spirit’ and I thought it looked like a cult, not even a little bid holy!!! Then I wonder, how can those people be allowed to do that, and misguide people in the name of Christianity? If that is not in Christianity, then, they are not Christians. But this may be too simplistic reasoning when it deciding what is acceptable and what is not. As the person in the video says, you may be accused of being a Pharisee or something…
Sadly, I’ve read also that not all agree on baptism, nor in what happens after death - some say they fall asleep, others go to heaven.... I am beginning to wonder if private interpretation of Scriptures is what God intended for Christians...
U see, this Baptist pastor said that no-one is his church was supposed to hold a bible study without his knowledge, then we thought, how can this be? For instance, he was criticizing Catholics for having a teaching authority within their church, which I think they call magisterial, then he was telling us he was the ‘pope’ of his church, and that we may not team up to study the bible by ourselves!!! -
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Yael,
The question is not regarding how one is saved, but the rentention of it. There are two camps that love Jesus and trust Him for their salvation. One camp believes that the gift of salvation is irrevocable. The other camp believes that it can be lost. Both look to the Sctripture and trust God to guide them, yet there are two camps with variations within those camps. I am convinced regarding my view, but respect the view of others. One can debate this issue for the next 100 years and there will still be two camps. We can allow this to divide us or we can choose to focus together on Jesus and His mission. God is not confused, but man is still growing and learning.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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