legalist

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 21, 2009 at 5:39am

Kenny,

That is one view of what some consider to be a legalist. Another view is referring to those who are still trusting in the Law and have either missed God's grace or devalued it by their teaching and actions. There are some who teach that one is saved by grace then attempt to force people to live by the Law in order to keep their salvation. There is no question that we should seek to live by and adhere to the principles of God's Word, but there is a difference between living by under the Law and under grace as described in the Book of Galatians and other places in God's Word.

When speaking of the Pharisees we have to keep in mind the differences that took place over the course of time in them. For example, they initiated over 3000 laws. Their goal in the beginning was good and admirable. They created these laws to be a buffer around the Laws of God. If you could navigate their laws you would not break God's and therefore remain innocent. Over time they perverted their own laws and elevated them to the same status as God's laws, if not higher than God's law in their own minds. Thus, at the time of Jesus' coming to the earth they had a very perverted view of God, His ways and His laws. Jesus' illustrates this when He refers to their teaching in Matthew 16:6 which says, "Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Therefore, when referring to the Pharisees as legalist, they are one of the greatest examples. They got some of it right and missed the mark on so many of the other things as illustrated in Matthew 23:23. They taught others from this perverted view and were leading them away from the grace of God that is found in Jesus Christ.

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by kennymc on February 21, 2009 at 1:58pm

LT HELLO
When talking with my friends who go to church, they say you do not have to obey God in order to be saved.
They use Eph. 2:8 to teach this. Is this what you believe? What do you think about people like Noah, was he
saved by the grace of God? Noah was not under the Law. He received the blessings of God when he followed
Gods instructions. He was saved by Gods grace, through his faith. But he was obedient to God," he moved with
godly fear and prepared an ark. The rest of the world did not get in the ark and were not saved by Gods grace.
My friends say God would have saved him anyway, even if he had not obeyed? I do not see this in scripture.
In all ages before the Law, during the Law, and after the was nailed to the cross, people were told to obey.
Gods people did not go into the land of promise... read I Cor.10;1-11 Paul says to the churched, they are your
ensample (example) also read 1 Cor 6:9 to the church he says "be not deceived" if you practice sin you will not
enter into the kingdom of God or heaven.
Matt 7:21-23 unsaved believers, workers in Jesus name
Heb. 5:8-9 ...to those that obey HIM...
I want to be one of the eight that get in the A. O. S.
your true friend, kn

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 21, 2009 at 3:44pm

Hey Kenny,

Two points here that jump out at me.

1) The church and Israel are not the same and cannot be treated identically by us in understanding Scripture. 2) Obedience does not lead to salvation, but is our response to it once we have experienced it.

Noah would surely have drowned if he had refused to have entered the ark. Yet, God in His foreknowledge knew that Noah would enter the ark. He did not make him enter, but simply knew He would. Obedience to God's Word is still the right response to God's Word and what God expects. When we disobey we do not fall out of grace or salvation. We experience divine discipline from God for our behavior (Heb. 12). As a rough example for those who are saved and choose to disobey they can expect a Jonah type life for the duration of their disobedience as Jonah experienced for his.

Our entrance into eternal life is not based on obedience, but the work of Jesus. It is by grace we are saved and by that same grace we are secured through faith. We could go down a long rabbit trail here, but simply put. I live for God and serve Him because I love Him and want to please Him, not because of fear of condemnation (Rom. 8:1). When referring to obedience in the church age some consideration has to be given to what exactly are we called to obey and why. Acts 15 is a great starting place. Galatians is another. What code did Jesus nail tot he cross in Colossians 2:14. What part did Jesus fulfill and what part still carries over that we are responsible for? One cannot be saved by grace and then return to being a slave under the Law. Am I negating the Word of God? Not at all, but the power of the Law of sin and death have been broken for the believer (Rom. 8:1-17). We do not live by the sinful flesh, but by the Spirit of God.

Matthew 7:21-23 clearly demonstrates that not all who think they are saved are really saved.
Hebrews 5:8-9 give us a picture of a son obeying his father, not a slave under the power and penalty of the Law.
1 Cor. 10:1-11 - There is divine dsicipline awaiting those who choose to disobey.
1 Cor. 6:9 - A brother is never referred to as a wicked man.

The key is whether a man is truly saved or not. I will state here that I come from a point of view that believes we cannot lose our salvation once we have truly been saved.

Lord Bless,
LT

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