Judas Iscariot, the condemmed??

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by forgiven on October 13, 2010 at 2:40pm

Yes Carla.....That goes all the way back to the garden. When Adam and Eve sinned, God did not hide 'himself' from us.....it was us (Adam) who was hiding because of his guilt. But Jesus took all that away. He gave us full opportunity to 'come clean' and approach God, through Him. But.......if we keep sinning, we ourselves actually begin to 'avoid' God instead of coming to Him.

"For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” John 3:20-21

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 13, 2010 at 3:19pm

Forgiveness - one of the most beautiful words in the English language.

Permalink Reply by forgiven on October 13, 2010 at 3:27pm

Yes....Forgiveness (purchased by Jesus) is the only reason I am able to stand before God. It is the only reason that I was able to turn away from death when I was hell-bent for destruction. What is so awesome....is that: even though we were/ are sin-full, God does not desire us to 'crawl' to Him. He wants us to come to Him upright and beautiful. What an awesome gift! We certainly 'did' not deserve this. We still do not 'deserve' forgiveness and salvation, but He gives it to us....just for turning to Him. What a good deal!

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 13, 2010 at 3:35pm

Amen and amen!

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 13, 2010 at 4:10pm

Amen and Amen Indeed.

Permalink Reply by JB on October 13, 2010 at 9:42pm

Something to think about!
To some it might be splitting hairs, however there is a difference, forgiveness is one thing and forgiven is another, when we think about these two, we might get a little different perspective on it.
When we sin we can have one of two different responses, one would be when you sin: to come under condemnation and as “Forgiven said” start crawling to God on all fours: begging for forgiveness.

Heb.4, says come boldly to the throne of Grace that ye may obtain Mercy and find Grace to help in the time of need.

The other response would be, To recognize that you did sin, look up say Father I have sinned and I thank you that my sins are covered by the blood of your Son Jesus Christ, and Father your Word says that you are not imputing my trespasses against me and I give you thanks for it in Jesus’ Name, Amen,


When we take the Word of God: as it being a reality and not just a theory or a doctrine, then we could be walking in peace without condemnation, or as Ro.8:1 says,” There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit”

Though both responses would be acceptable, The second response would be the proper response for me. We feel being free from sin would make us Holy, or we try to do everything just right, paying tithes, going to Church, witnessing, etc. But the Word says “Be ye Holy for I am Holy”

See when we first believed: we were made Holy and became the righteousness of God and were sealed at that very instance, you could say we were changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.
So you see? We don’t quit sinning to be made Holy or righteous; we are Holey and righteous and we use that Holiness to quit sinning. We don’t do all these works: as mentioned above to gain acceptance with God, The Word says “you are accepted in the beloved”
The bible says in John 6:28, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

We don’t do all these things to be righteous or Holy, We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, and because of that we do these things. Like we say, do we do these things to become a Christian; or are we Christians and because of that we do these things?
As the Ten Commandments, they become our new Nature, which is the Divine nature of God.

As far as forgiveness is concerned; no one ever has to ask me to forgive them, Why? Because they are forgiven, I am not imputing there trespasses unto them, I refuse to allow the devil get that foot hold on me, because I have that nature of God dwelling in me and I try not to give him
[the devil] any place in life. [Emphasis on TRY ]
The Word says to confess your sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness, He does not say to come to God and beg Him for forgiveness; Why? because He bore all of your sins and the sins of the world on the cross and you are forgiven and He is not imputing your trespasses against you. 2Cor.5:19;
Just confess your sins and repent.

Take God at His Word, He is faithful. Amen?
Joe

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 14, 2010 at 1:58am

Amen, again.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on October 14, 2010 at 3:40am

Joe,

Solid word. Thanks for sharing this.

Lord Bless
LT
TheNET Coordinator

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 14, 2010 at 7:48am

Amen and Amen Joe. Thank you for posting.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on November 1, 2010 at 5:56am

Amen.

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on October 30, 2010 at 2:17pm

Wicus, you have excellently posited a question which forces us to consider the tensions between the Biblical Doctrine of Predestination and the Biblically implied Freewill of man. My answer will combine my understanding of Scripture and Experience. Bear with me as this may have been answered already, but I have only read a few of the comments.

There are two points that seem to be in tension, if not outright contradiction:
First, is that God's word speaks of Divine Predestination and the Sovereignty of God. It is undeniable and it is clear to a degree that makes it silly for any serious student to deny the fact.

Second, it is also undeniably clear that God holds man morally responsible for our choices. In the case of Judas Iscariot, Jesus makes it very clear that God holds Judas Iscariot completely responsible and has already pronounced judgment on him.

At first review, we may think these things to be contradictory. Some will even say that it is a logical fallacy to believe they can both be true. However, we know that God cannot lie and his word cannot fail. (by both the claims of Scripture and by experience). Jesus obviously did not think that there was any contradiction - and that is our first clue.

One conclusion that I have made, which has become one of my primary theological principles, is that God is not a God of force. That is to say that God will accomplish His will and purposes without forcing things to happen. He is not a Heavenly dictator ruling with tyrannical demand. In every circumstance in Biblical history you see that God grants mercy and grace to all: He did so to Pharoah, He did so to the Canaanites, He did so to Nineveh. The difference is that the first two rejected His mercy and the 3rd did not (read Jonah).

The fact is that we must come to this conclusion then: Predestination and God's soveriegnty are not in contradiction with our Freewill - nor can we thwart God's divine plan. Therefore we must conclude these are two seperate issues. Two matters that run alongside each other, but are not the same, nor are contradictory.

From having read the dialogue and narrative of the Gospels, as well as the prophesies you cite, it is very clear to me that God was speaking to Judas - pleading with him NOT to betray Jesus. He pleaded with him through the voice of Jesus, through Judas' own conscience and through the voice of Scripture, which Judas would have known. So then, was it predestined that Judas himself should be the betrayer? Apparently so. Was it true that God wanted Judas to betray Jesus? Could it be true that God intended to punish Judas for doing the very thing that would result in salvation for millions of others while not for himself?

I don't think so. God has never shown himself to be a cruel and unloving God in my experience, nor in my study of scripture. Every person that I know who has gone to their grave in the lost state of unrepentance has had many opportunities to hear God and repent. I believe that the heart of God in this matter is best revealed by how Jesus wept over Jerusalem before he pronounced woe. If you read that, you will see that He himself is grieved at the coming judgment and that he is not desiring the wicked to be condemned -but rather Jesus desires that they would have been "gathered" to Himself.

The only conclusion that I can come to is that God allows man to have Freewill while also exercising His sovereign predestination over history to perfectly achieve His plans. This means we have the following circumstances:
1. At every point in life, you and I are morally responsible for our choices.
2. We will receive the consequences or blessings of those choices.
3. God will make provision for our deliverance, when we repent of sin.
4. God will answer the repentant prayer of even the most vile person and
5. We will ultimately find that our repentance or rebellion was already part of His plan, and will perfectly weave into what God has already promised (or warned) - yet it was our own choice and our own decision that brought us to that place.

To me, this reminds me to heed the warnings of Scripture - especially when things are confusing. I would never want to be so busy building a kingdom that I find myself to be betraying the word or work of God. We have seen this happen with many people - whether in the church, politics or business; there are many who are so busy working to build the plans that they want God to bless, that they find themselves actually at war with God and to have really betrayed Him.

Permalink Reply by Sarah Gardener on October 30, 2010 at 2:54pm

Big AMEN to this post. Well said Scribe! Very understandable!

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