Judas Iscariot, the condemmed??

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by RoyW on November 2, 2010 at 4:07am

God bless you Linda,

To a certain degree, we all have a Job complex. I have no desire to discourage you.

I see things just a little bit differently than you. However, I do not want to be a discouragement in your life. We are undoubtedly referring to different issues. You are talking about how we must live once we have been saved and I am talking about salvation in general. This is how I see the salvation experience:

God has offered a free gift to all who would receive. It is this beautiful gift of salvation. There is absolutely nothing you can do to earn this free gift and absolutely nothing you can do to keep it. That part belongs to Him. Salvation is entirely a work of God of which the individual can contribute nothing.

Once the individual is saved, God gives that person information on how to live. Those are things we must do or He will intervene in our lives in a most demanding way. However, that intervention does not imply He might remove our name from the book of life or that He will in any way take away what He has freely given us.

Jesus came to do the will of the Father which was to assure that none of all those the Father had given Him would be lost. Jesus wept bitterly through His time on this earth hoping and diligently requesting that another method be used to fulfill this responsibility of His. Even up to the last night we find Him praying, "Father, if there be any way remove this cup from me." We read in Hebrews:

Heb 5:7-10

7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. NIV

The work was all His. He prayed there was another way but this requirement had to be met. Jesus met the requirement, the work was finished, everything necessary for our salvation has been completed. He willingly submitted His life that we might be saved.

What must we do? We are told to obey. How do we obey? We believe in Him. We trust Him for everything. Even that is a free gift.

Jesus must be the center of attention. He has done it all. I must focus my attention on Him and not on myself. That is difficult since we face all kinds of fiery trials that seem to get us down. These have come to perfect our faith which is the most valuable asset we have. Faith is the victory that overcomes the world, not our works.

Blessed be the Name of our Lord Who has done everything necessary for our salvation for us. He completed the task that God had given Him. It is finished. He accomplished the will of God and we are saved. Hallelujah to the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. Even that is a completed work that has yet to pay out. My trust is in Him that all my sin will be gone.

Amen.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on November 2, 2010 at 5:23am

Linda,

I went to the site you listed above in a response to David. I wanted to see where you were getting some of your information. After reading just a couple of articles on salvation, there is obviously a difference of opinion. Some see salvation as all of God and nothing of man while as this site you mentioned promotes, it is part of God and part of man. God does His part but man must do his part as well.

Only God can bridge the gap between the two views as presented by your link. As I mentioned in my above post (I think it is above) I believe salvation is an act of God bestowed freely upon all those who receive. It is all of God. As your site implies, that does present a problem to the adherer of that position. It does, that is, if one feels he is obligated to explain God. As you have seen I make no effort to justify or explain God for His actions. I make no effort to present Him as being what we would consider fair in the eyes of others. I do say He is right in all that He does.

After reading the articles, there is obviously a gap in our understandings. David mentioned that he had been where you are. I was raised and trained to be where you are. These are good and wonderful people. They all love God just as I love God. They do not understand why I have left their position.

My problem with saying it is part of God and part of man is that I refuse to give any credit for my salvation to myself. To say it is part of man appears to me that some of the credit is being given to man. I cannot do that.

Man is a wonderful creature. He is fearfully and wonderfully made. God has great plans for man. Man is capable of many wondrous things. However, when it comes to this issue of salvation, he is absolutely helpless. There is or was nothing he could do. Jesus had to come and do it all for him. Everything rested on the success or failure of Christ. All attention has to be upon Him. Because the responsibility was so great, He did ask to be relieved of it. He wept with tears for relief but there was no other way. Our salvation depended wholly upon His success or failure. He did succeed and my salvation is secure. It is finished. It is complete. Now, some will say to focus first on Him and then refocus upon ourselves. I just don't see it that way. I say keep your focus on Him, the One who initiated your faith and the One that will finish your faith.

All praise to Him,
Roy

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 31, 2010 at 8:49am

Rita,

What difference does it make? There is no way that fall was not going to happen. God's plan was put into effect before He said, "Let there be." Before He ever created one atom, He determined that you and I would be a part of His family. I believe you and I were a part of His plan before one angel was created. All creation is centered around you being adopted into His family. That is how important you are. There is no way anything can get into the way of you being a part of the bride. That is predetermined. It is prophesied. Nothing can hinder His Word from coming to pass. He does everything according to His purpose and will. I hear you wanting to say, "It is me, it is me, it is me, but it is me."

I understand your desire to take just a little credit for Him choosing you. I also understand why. You want to make God fit into your idea of fairness. You would consider God being unfair for choosing you and not choosing Esau, Pharaoh, Saul, Belshazzar, Judas, or any of the other billions that are not chosen. However, you don't have all the information. You don't know exactly what He is doing or why He does things the way He does them. I am confident that He is fair, just and righteous in all of His actions. I don't know what all He has done, but I can say that He made it very clear that this is His plan and all things are being run according to His purpose and will.

Jesus said:

Jn 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. NIV

This is a verse that has both positions of free will and His sovereign plan included. We see both God's action and whoever comes. I believe God's actions preceded the whoever came. That is what you have to decide.

Roy

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on October 31, 2010 at 11:59am

Brother Roy,

You are testifying to what you THINK I believe. You are testifying to me wanting to take the credit for my salvation and that is far from the truth. I merely answered the call of the Holy Spirit just as you did. Just as all Christians have done. Just because many in the world have chosen to heed the call, doesn't mean they did anything, except heeding the call and believing the truth as the Spirit led them to.

Rita

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 31, 2010 at 12:42pm

Rita,

I did a very poor job of expressing what I was expressing. I may be absolutely wrong. You are right that I am referring to what I think you believe. When I see someone that feels they can accept or reject the call, it appears to me that they are taking a little bit of credit for accepting the call as opposed to the one who chooses not to accept. However, if you do not believe you can reject the call, you are taking absolutely no credit for the salvation that you have received.

Please disregard any characterizing on my part. Thanks.

Roy

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on October 31, 2010 at 8:51am

Tom,
God is all knowing, all present, all creative, all seeing. No, it isn't a new concept, it is an age old fact. However, the way one looks at it might be different than the way another looks at it. Unfortunately we don't all look at it the same way. I believe the Holy Spirit will guide you to understanding.

Blessings to you in the Name of Christ Jesus, our Creator and our Savior.
Rita

Permalink Reply by Louis Akporiaye on October 31, 2010 at 9:49am

Wonderful answer sister.

God bless you.

Louis.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 31, 2010 at 9:32am

Tom,

Actually, we are having a friendly discussion over the greatest controversy that exists in the Evangelical church. The discussion has been around for centuries. All of us would agree that we are saved by grace through faith. We all agree on the person of Christ, the doctrine of the Trinity, the authority of Scripture and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (There would be a lot of differing opinion, however, on that last one.) We all deeply love one another in Jesus Christ. A verse in Scripture that would get us going could be one like the following:

Eph 1:11-12 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. NIV

This is just an example of Scripture we are discussing. Others will put up the following as an example:

Rv 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. KJV

Some will say it is up to man to choose God, others will say it requires God to determine and others will say it is a combination. However, I am hoping it all remains a friendly discussion.

What is vitally important is that if you desire to come to Him you are free to do so. If you call upon Jesus, you will be saved from all your sins.

Roy

Roy

Permalink Reply by Louis Akporiaye on October 31, 2010 at 9:55am

EXCELLENT SUMMARY....

BLESSINGS..

Louis.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 31, 2010 at 10:01am

Louis,

Are you a new friend on AAG? I have only been around for a few months and just learning some of the folks. I haven't seen too many that seem to think like you. We appear to have similar convictions. I am really enjoying your posts.

Roy

Permalink Reply by Louis Akporiaye on November 1, 2010 at 7:53am

Yes i'm just three days old here... I'm passonate about the truth, I don't take side with what is not straight, no matter what. I interpret the way I see and accept the way God has given me his word. Anyone that's after the truth, will find me interesting.

Thanks for the commendation, Glory to the spirit of truth who has made all true belivers one in Him. Glory to God Almighty.

Blessings.

Louis

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on October 31, 2010 at 5:11pm

Roy this Rocks with a capital R. :)

Amen and amen. Ok I really got to go now. Asta la vista baby.... haha

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