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Judas Iscariot, the condemmed??
I have a question, and maybe I am misinterpreting the message, but I need to get clarification on it.
Jesus, during the final meal, after making known His betrayer said in Mat 26: 24 "The Son of Man is going just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been (more profitable and wholesome) for that man if he had never been born".
Am I mistaken if I say that here Jesus has actually condemmed Judas for what he would be doing? Yet, it is written in Zech 11:13 (first part of the verse) "And the Lord said to me, Cast it to the potter [as if He said, To the dogs!] - the munificently [miserable] sum at which I [and My Shepard] am priced by them!"
Here already the Lord has said what the price would be for the deliverance of our Saviour. It goes to reason that this was all already planned as we know, for the fulfillment of Jesus to thus perish and rise again, for us all to be saved.
Why then, if it was all predestined for it to happen, was Judas thus condemmed for what he was supposed to do?
Help pls
God's blessings be on you all.
Wicus
Jesus, during the final meal, after making known His betrayer said in Mat 26: 24 "The Son of Man is going just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been (more profitable and wholesome) for that man if he had never been born".
Am I mistaken if I say that here Jesus has actually condemmed Judas for what he would be doing? Yet, it is written in Zech 11:13 (first part of the verse) "And the Lord said to me, Cast it to the potter [as if He said, To the dogs!] - the munificently [miserable] sum at which I [and My Shepard] am priced by them!"
Here already the Lord has said what the price would be for the deliverance of our Saviour. It goes to reason that this was all already planned as we know, for the fulfillment of Jesus to thus perish and rise again, for us all to be saved.
Why then, if it was all predestined for it to happen, was Judas thus condemmed for what he was supposed to do?
Help pls
God's blessings be on you all.
Wicus
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Hey Sharon,
Your response helps to clarify, for me, what you mean by free will and we are basically in agreement. I still like Tomato though ... hahaha :-)
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on
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Thank you David and LT!
All for His Glory and Honor!
Sharon Theil. -
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To get us back on track, I will restate the question as I understand it....
If it was predestined that Judas would betray Jesus was he a damned soul from the time of his conception? His suicide indicated that he was remorseful but was he damned because he felt that God could not forgive him or was it inevitable? Or was it that the devil got into his mind and forced him to betray Jesus?
In any case, Judas is an unfortunate character and seems not to have had any free will. That can't be right because it's contrary to God's nature and our understanding that we all have free will. -
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Sharon,
Here is an alternate question: Does God foreknow all those who will come to Him for salvation? If so, then those He doesn't foreknow are damned.
Roy -
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Roy,
One question at a time, please! LOL This is pretty deep theology here and I am getting a brain pain.
Let's make this a little bit easier on my brain by defining some of basic terms, OK?
What does 'predestination' mean to you?
What does 'foreknowledge' mean, to you?
What does 'foreordained' mean, to you?
What does 'free will' mean to you?
:) All For Him :)
Sharon. -
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Sharon,
I didn't see this post. I hope I'm not too late.
Predestination is a word that indicates to me that God acted to cause to being that which He willed.
Foreknowledge and foreordained are different forms of the same word - one a verb and the other a noun. To foreknow means to know beforehand. The condition of being foreknown is to have been foreordained.
Free will means a man who is free to choose based on his own inclinations. This, or course, is extremely limited by God.
I'm sorry I missed this post.
Roy -
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Roy,
Predestination is a word that indicates to me that God acted to cause to being that which He willed.
Predestination = God Makes to happen that which He wills. Would that be correct?
Foreknowledge and foreordained are different forms of the same word - one a verb and the other a noun. To foreknow means to know beforehand. The condition of being foreknown is to have been foreordained.
OK.
Free will means a man who is free to choose based on his own inclinations. This, or course, is extremely limited by God.
OK. Does our 'extremely limited' free will include the ability to obey God's Will or to disobey God's Will?
I'm sorry I missed this post.
No apologies necessary my brother-in-the-Lord! Thank you for having this very important discussion with me!
Sharon. -
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Sharon, do you believe what is prophesied in Revelation is going to happen? Do you believe that He already knows the name of each individual that will ultimately be His family? If so, your life not only affects you but it affects all those upon which your life will have an effect. Your life will have an effect upon the outcome of all that He has planned. Do you have the freedom to step outside of that and cause a different effect? I don't think you do.
Some would argue and say that He could cause the same outcome to happen in another way using different people. If I fail, someone else will pick up that slack sort of thing.
Look at this verse:
Ps 139:13
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb. NIV
What does that mean to you? How much detail was woven into your DNA? You are the exact creature He needed for His purpose. He did not miss one detail when He was creating you. Are these your decisions? Yes, they are but you are the only one of your kind. No one else was ever made like you or will ever be made like you. He determined every detail.
Those of us that believe in Revelation should right now begin to praise Him for the victory in our lives. You are loved by Him. You were as special of a creation as Adam was. (Those are the kind of statements that get me into trouble, but that is what I believe.) You are a special creation of God created to bring about a part of His plan. For that you should be very grateful.
I'm going to stop there.
Praise the Lord.
Roy -
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Permalink Reply by Louis Akporiaye on
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Hallelujah, perfect one again.
Blessings.
Louis -
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hi Wicus,
I believe that Judas could have repented after he betrayed Jesus. True Repentence is a sign of a saving faith. God would have forgiven him had he repented. God is Sovereign, and He uses even the evil in this world to accomplish His purposes. Judas, through a chain of poor choices met with a very bad end. I believe that he would have been saved if he had repented with a godly sorrow, rather than just knowing his guilt and falling into satan's trap of condemnation.
More importantly.. What can we learn from him and his mistakes?
Blessings, Carla -
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