Judas Iscariot, the condemmed??

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by JB on September 29, 2010 at 7:41pm

Sir: I would like to know what difference it would make in our salvation, or our walk with the Lord either way? Predestination, fore knowledge of God etc.
I have noticed some of these questions and the responses by some, are just getting you and others more confused.
The bible says [1 John 2:27 (KJV)
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Also see John 16:13-14 (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

So my recommendation would be for all of us to just accept Jesus Christ as Lord, forget all these other things and just learn the basics and let the Holy Spirit teach what we need to know.

John 16:12 (KJV)
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

When you ask questions on an open forum such as this you will get various answers from divers teachings that it could confuse the very elect! [if it were possible]
Seems everyone on these forums: reads or studies from a different translation and the syntax in some will mislead you from the truth. For my self I stay away from the paraphrased bibles, they will even confuses me, because they are no more than another man or woman’s thoughts or opinions on what it says, and I don’t believe they are inspired by God. These are written by and for those that must try to understand the Word of God by their intellect and not by the Holy Spirit, and can be very detrimental to you knowing the truth, The Word says in, John 6:63-64 (KJV)
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I guess it is good to give your opinion on some of these subjects now and then, but not to say or think that they are the only way.
2 Timothy 2:22-26 (KJV)
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Joe

Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 30, 2010 at 4:59am

Joe,

As you know I lean towards predestination. However, I agree with what you have said. If it is causing confusion, I think it should be left alone for the time being, anyway. Joe, we still have not had our lunch together. I am guessing you just got pretty busy.

O, I don't think God predestined Judas to do what he did. I think God just knew from the foundation of the earth how it would all play out. Judas was not a pawn. He is responsible for his actions and his unbelief (that is what sent him to hell). Predestination speaks to the chosen ones. What an opportunity Judas had. He walked with the Savior and saw all the mighty miracles. However, he still did not believe in who Jesus was.

Roy

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 30, 2010 at 5:03pm

Raj

>>Was it really pre-destination?

That is a good question. If Wicus is ok with us taking the discussion down that road, which is related to his question I will get into the subject.

The topic of predestination can easily turn into a hot topic, but hot topics should not be avoided. We simply need to stick to the topic without assassinating the character of the people we discuss the topic with. We should learn how to discuss hot topics in love.

Where there is smoke there is fire, and where there is predestination, there is controversy. It seems that you can’t separate the two. Whenever the topic of predestination is brought up, there is sure to be a division in the house. Christians are united in the belief that the Bible teaches some kind of predestination. After all, it is in our Bibles that we read the word predestine or predestinate, so the concept is certainly there. So why all the controversy? It seems to be simple, the Bible says that God predestines people, therefore all Christians should be in agreement. If it were only that simple.

>>I was taught that God/Jesus/Holy Spirit all exists outside of our time/space/reality. So what happened was how it was supposed to happen; only that Jesus had the knowledge because He can see the past, present and the future. Am I making sense?

God is not constrained by time and space as we are, but He created it and interacts with it by living through us in time and space and by sustaining all that is.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 30, 2010 at 6:06pm

David,

I just enjoy the anointing of the Holy Spirit upon your posts. You have His Spirit all over you.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 30, 2010 at 8:37pm

I praise God that he has gifted some to be encouragers. Thank you beloved. God is so good, He has chosen the foolish things of the world; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

Praise Him

Permalink Reply by Dusty Rhodes on October 1, 2010 at 4:54am

Raj, one of the hardest concepts to come to terms with is God's time. Once you experiment
with an eternal present, the is part of Christ is makes sense. There are so many references to
a different way of looking at time in the Bible that eventually one is compelled to tear down some of the structured walls that we have built and see if we can survive without them. When I realized that by being in the present it actually can change one's past or perception it was shocking. God says a day is a thousand years to him. What does that mean? It means we created time: clocks and calendars and he is time. He is the Alpha and the Omega. God is spirit. The physical world defines itself by oppisition. I understand daylight because of it's oppisite, darkness. Good evil, man woman, sweet sour, life and death. This new creation God has planned for us is unique. Thus new wine in a new wine skin. Time and time no more. The Levite priest hood has been replaced by a Melchisedecian Priesthood that has no beginning or end. Mortality becomes immortal! There is only life, death is defeated. There is only truth because the father of lies is defeated. And then His Rest which is now for those who can bare it. When one challenges physical planes and tradition, one's perception changes. As one's perception is changed the Bible, the Living Word, changes also. These are the times of refreashing. Peace...............

Permalink Reply by williams chunga on September 30, 2010 at 2:36am

i do not think it was predestined for the son of pedition to be Judas.it could have been one of any of the 12, but Judas...He evn had the chance to repent, but doom met him.

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on September 30, 2010 at 4:46am

Wicus,

I am thinking there is something you are misunderstanding about God and I will do my best to explain what I know.

God (Jesus) is omnipotent, omnipresent, omnificent....He sees all things, hears all thing, created all things, sees from begining to end.

Because of these attributes of God, He knew that Judas would never choose to believe and follow Him. He knew that Judas would keep his evil ways til the end. Judas could have chosen a different way from the beginning but God knew he wouldn't. Therefore, Judas was one evil man out of many who chose to betray Christ for 30 pieces of silver. God didn't make him do it, he chose to do it. He wanted the money! He felt guilty afterward and he committed suicide. God didn't direct him to do anything.

People frequently get words like predestination and election wrong because they don't fully understand the power of God. There is always an argument going as to why God chose certain people to be saved and certain people to be lost. God doesn't make this choice. We make the choice as we live out our lives.

God doesn't choose to send people to hell. We choose to send ourselves to hell, by following our own desires instead of accepting our forgiveness from our Loving Father.

A person's salvation or condemnation is by what they themselves decide. God has nothing to do with making the decision. He simply knows what decision we are going to make from before the world began. God doesn't have to guess about anything we do, He already knows.

Chapter 17 of John is the prayer that Jesus prayed for us. One can never read that prayer too many times.

Blessings to you as yoou continue to study the Word of God,
Rita

Permalink Reply by Louis Akporiaye on October 28, 2010 at 5:17pm

Wonderful comments. But I will like you to help me clarify the aspect of predestination. You said God knew Judas would not accept Christ before the foundations of the world and also it was Judas's decision and self will that made him fail. Before we talk about things like this, we should always learn to put ourselves in that person's shoes. Could he have been able to help himself since God already knew he'd be the one to sell out Christ? Let us use the little sins we commit everyday as examples, can we boast of resisting all sins without fail? Judas was a victim of circumstance, even though he had the heart of a greedy man, he did not create himself, neither did he tell the devil to corrupt man in the Garden of Eden. Let us point this question back to Adam, if we talk about predestination, did God also know that satan was going to tempt Adam and that he would fall? Will you say Adam had the chance to defet satan even with his lack of knowledge about satan's abilities?
Please clearify

Louis

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on October 29, 2010 at 5:27am

Hey bro Louis -

The topic of predestination has been a hot one lately, check out the discussion below it deals with predestination, we had a good time discussing the topic.

http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/1383940:Topic:213090?id=138...

You have some great questions. I would love to have you joing the following group. I would enjoy having you join. : http://www.allaboutgod.net/group/theologygroup/forum

Welcome to AAG Louis. Blessings to you beloved.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 29, 2010 at 5:59am

Louis,

Do you mind if I jump in? How would it be possible to say that God did not know the outcome of His creation? We believe God is all-knowing. Yes, He knew what would happen with the creation of angels and with man. God lets us in on His plan. He has a plan and that plan had to include the fall of man. The only possible way to create an individual with the ability to think for oneself would be to create a man that could fall. The fall was inevitable. To understand God's actions, one must seek to learn His plan. What is His planned outcome? It is very clear in Scripture and is pointed out many, many times. What we end up with in the Book of Revelation is exactly what He had planned, what He had willed. What we see is a people living with God. We see a big happy family. I see Him enjoying His creation. However, a look at His creation shows His desire for a people with a thought process. He loves to help us to see His Word, His plan. He enjoys our conversations. He is enjoying this conversation. He wants a people that can converse with Him. Thus, we are created in His image. Everything He did in Creation was for us, His family.

Predestination involves His plan. What He has planned from all Creation, that will He cause to happen.

Roy

Permalink Reply by Louis Akporiaye on October 29, 2010 at 11:53am

"Predestination involves His plan. What He has planned from all Creation, that will He cause to happen." This is what i want to hear. Thank you for the clearification. God bless you.

Louis

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