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Is Obedience to God necessary for salvation?
I like to read all the replies here, they are very insightful and thoughtful.
The reason for this question, is that I've read more than one reply that states that there is nothing left for us to do regarding salvation. Is this biblical?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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I didn't see where she said she was leaving. I read her responses on my phone early this morning and when I got to the office and my computer, already planned a reply based on her asking where the Bible said we won't be perfect until we're in heaven, but then discovered they were all missing.
As for the reason Jesus says go and sin no more...while God doesn't want us to sin, and tells us not to, He sent His son so that IF we HAPPEN to sin and are truly remorseful to the point that we no longer want to do that thing, He forgives it AND forgets it. We sin in little areas many times. Are we always sinning, just because we get a thought or something? No. But if we start entertaining those thoughts, they can become sins.
One has to read the complete Bible in context to understand that while we're told to be perfect as Jesus is perfect, to imitate Christ, etc., we're also told that of ourselves we CAN'T be perfect, but we are MADE perfect through acceptance of Christ. Perfect in our hearts in the eyes of God. And we desire to be perfect in our actions and seek to be more and more like Jesus daily. Those seemingly contradictory statements baffled me for awhile as well. Til I began to understand them all put together.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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The part I was picking up in her replies was a core belief that the believer is still in danger of eternal damnation for sinning. It was something I have always greatly feared as well. My heart really goes out to her if this is her belief. It is sheer torment to live in that turmoil of always thinking you are falling in and out of grace.
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Yeah, since Jesus said His yoke was easy and His burden light...if it's so easy, why do people fall away so much? Because they're taught to look at it as a hard obedience and if you fail there's no hope for you. :-(
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Permalink Reply by ribbon on
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When I first thought I was saved and I went to work all happy and ready to tell the world how God saved ME..... so many of my co-workers at different times came up to me and told me that they too were saved. Many of these co-workers were just as worldly as worldly can get... I know this because I could hear them talking and talking about the sin they enjoyed doing. I would hear some of them talk about the "strange" they got the night before. Or how drunk they got..... The cussed they talked smack about others and on and on. Once right after I started backsliding... some of them came up to me and pointed their finger at my sin. When this happened I pointed at theirs. They didn't like that... I told them it was hard to see that they were born agains because they were so vulgar. Their answers to me were that they said a prayer and God wouldn't take what He had given. They continued telling me that it didn't matter what they did or didn't do that God would not tale their salvation away. This is what I don't understand. You have the liars the fornicators the adultress the drunks the murderers ect ect........ being comfortable in their sin and knowing they are saved. I have also heard so many non saved people talk about the hypocrits and hate the Christian because of believing this is the way all Christians act. I know that folks are saved by grace through faith and not by works..... but seriously when folks don't know scripture well ..like I don't...... they will think there is no need to be obedient at all. I get so confused by all this. One of my boss' believed he could cheat and cheat on his wife,... to which he is the one who said he did and did a lot, and believed without a doubt he was heaven bound. He apparently didn't think he had to be obedient. I wil stop I think I may be off subject... I am sorry.
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I have one more question then I will try my best to stop here.
My question..... Since Jesus' blood washes sins away..... then why and how can sin mix with that? How can dirty sin be mixed with pure cleanse?. I don't even know how to ask my own question........ :(
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Janie, Paul answers this in Romans 6:
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord.
People who say they can keep sinning and God won't take away their salvation may never have been saved. Salvation requires repentance. Wiki defines repentance as: Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs.[1] It generally involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible and humane life.
About.com Christianity gives a good word on it: In a biblical context, repentance is recognizing that our sin is offensive to God. Repentance can be shallow, such as the remorse we feel because of fear of punishment (like Cain) or it can be deep, such as realizing how much our sins cost Jesus Christ and how his saving grace washes us clean (like the conversion of Paul).
Some people fear hell and turn to God to stay out of the fire, but don't really want to change their lifestyle. Some truly desire change. Salvation is a matter of the heart...if you shall believe "in your heart". Some read the words and think ok, I believe, i'm saved. Others read them and they question how much they really do believe it since they have doubts at times, because they SINCERELY want to believe it deep in their heart. They want to know they're right with God and doing right. They are hurt by things they do they see as sins.
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Some people fear hell and turn to God to stay out of the fire
I think this is what I had done when I first repented. I remember I was asked by my friend how I felt right after I said the sinners prayer. I told her I felt the same and that the only thing I knew to be different was that I wasn't going to hell. Which, by the way I don't believe that way anymore. I don't believe saying the one prayer is the way. But, after that I kinda remember when I was trying to be obedient to the Lord I started changing. At first I was doing things I really didn't want to do..... like prayer and praying for weirdo..... that was very hard. I hated reading but I felt like I should because that was being obedient because I heard that His people perish for lack of knowledge. Something like that.... anyway the more I was doing to act like I was a obedient child of God the closer I felt I was to Him. Man.... at that time I didn't know love like that existed by this God by Jesus/. If only I had that back. But then again.... He will have mercy on whom He has mercy. If He aint calling He aint calling
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Not necessarily. I didn't feel any different either, but I knew I wanted change. That was one thing I wanted more than anything. I was sick of being "me". But I felt nothing change inside. I was expecting this great miracle, changed in an instant, some overnight thing. Doesn't happen like that unless it's God's purpose to move someone along faster or something. Some of us have a lot of bondage that needs broken off and God's going to go to work on us to break it. That may mean some trials, which may cause the one who didn't feel this overnight miraculous change take place to start questioning whether they truly were saved or not.
I would say that only you know your heart, and if you truly desire change and to follow God. But then, we don't even know our hearts the way we think. God's the only one who truly knows them. All we can do is know if we really want change and work with Him. He will show us along the way if we're on the right path or not. But sometimes we can't see what He shows us for all the clamor in our lives, or He makes us wait for a time.
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Seek,
or He makes us wait for a time.
When I read the above.... I started singing... Ive been waiting for a God like you to come into my life.... yeah waiting...... lololol . I am laughing because the other day I had my grandkids here and they were saying I sang all the time. They said that sometimes when they said something I would respond by singing using words they said. I never noticed it before but now I am noticing it. I told yu I don't get out much...
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LOL I have to get Kari to teach me her family's prayer next Sunday. We're holding the Life Group at her house and she has 6 kids, several with severe special needs. So they sing their meal prayer, but I don't remember the words.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Here comes another "bully" answer. Janie, I think what might help is to get your eyes off of others and onto Jesus. See His finished work. Don't occupy yourself with what you have to do but occupy yourself with what He has done for you. He did not make this thing difficult. He made it so that anyone who wants to receive what He has provided can easily receive His free salvation. Sometimes people think that getting something free requires a lot of hoops to jump through. Not so here. If you ask Him to save you and really mean that, He will save you eternally. He wants to do that. His love comes screaming through these pages we call the Bible. There are those who want to pile regulations upon regulations upon this free gift. Some even want to profit from telling you all these things. For me, I just want you to know. I do not want to receive a thing. Janie, you are so focused on works, you cannot see Christ. Get your eyes off of what you can or cannot do and get your eyes on Him. Everything else will begin to fall into place and make sense. Focus on Him. You have your focus on yourself. That doesn't work. You can ask David, Amanda, Seek and the rest. Their lives completely changed when they began to focus on Him and not themselves.
Blessing to you. Sorry for the bully answer.
RW
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