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Is everything God's will?
Yet is is not God's will that ANY should perish yet we know many do. We know it wasn't God's will that Adam and Eve disobey Him yet they did.
I don't believe everything that happens is God's will. God gave us freedom of choice and sometimes our choices may take away another's choice. It's not God's will that it happens but neither will He remove the choice He gave.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Seek,
Two points I would attempt to make.
1) It is God's will that mankind should be granted liberties. In this God never surrenders or diminishes His sovereign rule, but rather as Sovereign God grants man those liberties to will and act within certain parameters. For we are not free to do any and everything we want, but are free within the parameters of God to make selections everyday.
2) God knows the past, present and future, and as Sovereign God can give man those liberties without concern as He is already aware of every move we will make and every thought we will think.
Thus, our lives are lived out within the will of God and part of that will is that He has chosen to give us liberties. Therefore in a real sense it is all God's will, but not in the sense that He is the causation of every action. He is the Overseer of all and has the right to interject at any moment as He, being sovereign, so desires (i.e. Jonah).
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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What about Daniel 10:12 Then he continued, "Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
Why would it be God's will that the angel He sent to help be detained? If there's a spiritual battle going on that we can't see can that battle not be cause for delay? I just don't see how it would be God's will to have the angel He sent be delayed.
I can understand He's sovereign and omnipotent but He also doesn't take the free will He gave us. He might push us in a direction as you say like Jonah. But what if we reject that push. Say if He convicts the drunk not to drive but they ignore that still small voice and drive anyway. Say an innocent bystander feels a tug to take a different route. If the bystander listens to that voice they remain alive. If they do not they're hit and killed by the drunk.
This is why I wonder whether it's His will because we didn't see Him stop it or wasn't His will as He was there speaking but was ignored.
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Could God have simply spoke to Daniel without the use of an angel? Of course. Do we know what the delay was about or what benefit the delay possessed? We do know that God who knows past, present and future was not caught by surprise at the engagement between the angel and the prince of Persia that required Michael. If God knew there was going to be a delay, and He did, why not send Michael to begin with to avoid the delay, unless the delay served a purpose ... even if beyond our understanding?
Therefore, because I cannot understand the reason does not mean there isn't a reason.
Regarding freewill and Jonah. Do you think Jonah sought to be swallowed by the great fish. Was that Him exercising his freewill? Of course not. God used the method necessary to stop Jonah from running and to get his attention and to give him time to come into alignment with Him. It took 3 days.
On another illustration, how about the assailants who by freewill intended to kill a missionary family (true story)? They pulled the family from their car and opened fire at short range with automatic weapons. Every bullet missed (or better put, not one bullet hit them). The assailants meant to kill them, but were frustrated and left. Their freewill was held in check and superseded by God.
Back to Daniel. I trust the answer arrived at the time the answer was most needed and intended for arrival.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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"He Reminded Us of You" (A prayer for a friend)
You are a great God.
Your character is holy.
Your truth is absolute.
Your strength is unending.
Your discipline is fair....
Your provisions are abundant for our needs.
Your light is adequate for our path.
Your grace is sufficient for our sins....
You are never early, never late....
You sent your son in the fullness of time and
will return at the consummation of time.
Your plan is perfect.
Bewildering. Puzzling. Troubling.
But perfect.
-- Max Lucado, Safe in the Shepherd's Arms, Hope & Encouragement from Psalm 23
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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It is God's Will that you should inherit everything Christ died for you to receive. [That is not a pun, but an intended correlation from scripture.]
What you receive from God is His gift to you: Life, Volition, Salvation, Sanctification. What you do with that is your gift back to God; whether to His praise and glory or to your shame (depending on your choices).
We have enormous freedom for how we live out this life. The call is to live it out, to "walk" as the Bible challenges, to the glory and praise of God. That calling is that we should walk as Jesus walked, live as Jesus lived, bringing the great news of God's amazing grace to a lost and hopeless humanity. Part of that calling is to seek His wisdom in all things, so that we may know the best means to do that.
However, I would challenge the fatalistic thinking that every evil or wretched thing that happens is somehow God's will, as in His intended purpose. The Bible says that God is not the author of sin, nor does He tempt any one to sin.
He has told us that in this life we will have trouble. He has also told us that He will work in everything to cause it to work out for our good and to His glory, for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. That is saying that even though bad stuff happens as part of this broken world, you can count on Him using it for His purposes. That doesn't mean He's deliberating to lead you into suffering and sorrow. It means that you live in a broken world that is messed up due to Man's sin and Satan's corrupting deception, where God reserves the right to use that stuff for His greater purposes and our ultimate good.
As in the story of Joseph and the 11 other sons of Jacob. God didn't cause the brothers to sin. But He used their sin to fulfill His own purposes and caused an outcome they could never imagine: Joseph becoming the Prime Minister of Egypt, the great empire of the world in that time. He will allow humanity to do evil. But, He will accomplish His own purposes despite that sin and despite the trouble that sin causes. In other words, He won't let the whim and weakness of man, nor the cunning of Satan to thwart His purposes.
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He will allow humanity to do evil. But, He will accomplish His own purposes despite that sin and despite the trouble that sin causes.
I wonder if that goes along with what LT was saying about Jonah. There are times He will intercede to accomplish His own purposes.
I just don't believe that if I turn around in my chair right now and bump my knee on my desk (as I do at least once a day), that it was God's will.
We shouldn't be angry with God or blame Him if things don't turn out how we think they should or expect, but in the other sense, I think it's sort of putting blame on Him too if anytime something bad happens, we say "it's God's will". I think Jeremiah 29:11 says it perfectly: For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil. So it seems to me, that if we claim it is God's will that evil happened to us, that sounds contradictory to scripture.
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I think most of the discussions I've posted on AAG have this question about God's will at the root.
Obviously, God may cause some pain and suffering (as in the case of Jonah) but the rain falls on the just and the unjust and, also, we reap what we sow. I don't see how, though, in any case, that we can say God isn't permitting it.
Job is an example that a human can keep faith and trust in God even in the middle of unimaginable suffering.
Job wanted to die but he also wanted to know why he was suffering. It wasn't God causing it but, of course, God permitted it.
Job lost his family, his possessions and then his health. It was one blow after another, and he no longer wished to live but he did want to understand the reason for his suffering.
We often condemn people for asking why but I believe God can handle our why questions.
To his friends, the explanation for why was simple but wrong. Job did not suffer because he sinned. He suffered because he was righteous.
We know this because God said there was none like Job in the earth -- a perfect and upright man who feared God and eschewed evil.
Job’s problems were very hard and his friends were of little comfort.
I can't say I've ever had a true Job experience, but, in light of all that I have experienced, then the possibility that God is behind the pain in anyway often seems too hard for me to consider, too, even in just allowing it. It's an area where I need to grow in trust of God.
As a child, I was being raised in an environment of neglect, abuse, and conflict and it was damaging. But was that God's will? :'(
I'm trying to accept that there's no explanation of human suffering that my intelligence can comprehend, and God is asking me to trust Him.
There are things that continue to bother me. One of them is that I don't feel safe no matter where I am. Is God going to protect me from the wrong choices of others? I think of Saint Paul. He suffered greatly at the hands of others as well as from life in a fallen world while battling the enemy, but said through all of it he was learning to rely on God.
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The way I heard this explained by my pastor in a sermon just recently is that God had a hedge of protection around Job. God didn't cause anything to happen but He simply removed the hedge of protection He'd put around Him. Most of us don't consider the hedge of protection, we don't see the angels around us protecting us from harm. But if those angels go, there's no hedge and we come under attack. Same with the opposite side, when people won't hear the message, it's because satan has a hedge of protection around them. He has them with the wrong crowds who keep them hedged in so they won't go against what they know for fear they'll sever relationships with those "friends".
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Basically, Satan accused Job of only serving God and being righteous in order to get good things from God, such as protection and health and prosperity and other blessings. God knew Job had the righteousness that comes from faith in Him. So, is our faith tested in like manner and the things that happen to us are not always about us? Some cases could be like Jonah where one is in rebellion. Others could be like Elijah. Others could be judgment, like Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, or if they were believers, then divine discipline. Just something to think about.
When God removes protective hedges, God still establishes a boundary. Satan can only go so far. God is also able to breakthrough any hedges Satan puts around people. The Good Shepherd will free His sheep from any type of thicket when they are His sheep.
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Did God cause Jonah's pain and suffering? Or did Jonah's disobedience cause it?
I do agree with you that God can handle our questions. But, like Job, sometimes we can't handle His answers :)
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Jonah was using his liberty and God stepped in, overriding Jonah's freewill. Yes, God did send a big fish and caused Jonah to be swallowed by it. I can't imagine what that was like but the text paints a picture of it for us. So, this is where I must disagree with your POV, Scribe. I've been studying and seeking enlightenment on it for quite awhile now. I believe even man's resistance to obey God, since God is all-powerful, is a manifestation of God's will, but there is a boundary, and it only goes so far, according to His will. We see the boundary in Genesis 15:16 where God states "the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” Letting the iniquity become complete is very much God's will, and a part of His plan. At least, I see it as being so, and, in some mysterious way, disobedience is part of God's will -- not that God causes it in any way, shape, or form, but that God allows it, and, therefore, it is within God's will.
That's why I stated that my intelligence is lacking here. It's hard to wrap your mind around something like that.
Also, the motive for Job's suffering is never revealed to Job. Job perseveres in his faith. It's no surprise to God. Job wants God to answer him, and, yes, God answers but never gives the full explanation (which we, the readers, are given in the first chapters, where God and Satan have conversations.) I've learned many things from Job, including I may ask Him why but I must not demand an explanation from God for what I've suffered. Instead, I must just surrender to Him and trust Him. Which is where I'm at and is very difficult and I'm not fully capable of it yet but I fully want it.
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Actually, Amanda, I believe that God does reveal the reason for Job's suffering at the end. He reveals himself to Job by a series of questions that give Job a much more divine perspective. Apparently, God did finally answer Job and reveal himself to Job plainly because Job is totally humbled by that revelation.
My summary of the situation would be this: "Job, it was for you to know me, to experience my glory and for you to see the divine perspective on life. And not just your life, but all life. It was all part of my plan. It was for the good of many who will see your suffering and understand."
Personally: I know that suffering has given me much more compassion and a greater sense of God's divine perspective. Personally, I hate the story of Job because in many ways my life has been a long endurance run that mirrors his situation at times and I don't want that story. And that is also why I love it. I have come to see that God did not purpose for me to suffer for some callous thrill or carelessness. I live in a broken world, as a fallen man, who is hated by a cruel adversary that seeks my demise. Some of my challenges are my own fault and failures. Some were the result of the failings and frailties of others, events put in motion long before I could even understand what was happening.
But God has a purpose for me to overcome! God uses those challenges and sufferings, yes. But his plan is for my good. His will is for me to see the goodness and to find the blessings and to change the story. I am not a victim. I am an overcomer in Christ. I am a new creation. That's my story. The challenges and suffering are just the muck and manure I was planted in. But I will grow out of it and let the rain of heaven cleanse it off me.
I hate Job. And I envy Job. He had the temerity to demand an answer from God. And God gave him an answer! Dare I demand an answer? Or should I just accept the answer that God gave Job: "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?" and "Will you really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?"
Like Job, i come to the conclusion that God and His plan is "too wonderful for me, which I did not know". He has put me in a world that has suffering. He then gives me the spiritual power to overcome, or the strength to endure as is necessary. And if He ever removes that strength, I will soon leave this world. Until then, I believe I am called to continue to contend against darkness and overcome it.
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