All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Infant baptism
Views: 1063
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
-
Bradley, I'm going to tell you some secrets that it took me many years as a Christian to learn. But first, I'm going to tell you what Jesus thinks of your dilemma. Knowing what Jesus thinks is not hard, if you seek his mind from scripture and from your conscience.
Your problem is not women, nor lusting for women. And your problem isn't baptism. The problem is what you love. Jesus confronted people about what they loved. You see, God wants your heart. He wants your complete devotion to Him.
Think about what Jesus was most hurt by in the whole world. Was it the Romans who did not know God? No. Was it the sin of the prostitutes and tax collectors? No. Was it even the greed of the sadducees? No. What grieved and hurt Jesus the most was betrayal. He spent much time at the Last Supper discussing it and the only person that Jesus actually pronounces eternal judgement on is Judas Iscariot. But, consider also that Jesus was very bothered by Peter's betrayal. Although he had compassion on Peter, it was disturbing enough that John tells us the Jesus looked Peter straight in the eye when he denied knowing Jesus. Betrayal.
Stop for a second and look backward in time to the Exodus, to the ten commandments. What was the first commandment? "You shall have no other gods". Think onward, God says many times "I the LORD am a Jealous God". You see, He wants you heart. Look all the way to the end of the Bible, to Revelation and you will see that Jesus condemns the church at Ephesus for forgetting their first love. What led Jesus to turn over the tables at the Temple? Passion (zeal) for His Father's house. God hated idolatry, because all idolatry is betrayal.
So, here is secret #1: you will be devoted to that which you love and you will love that to which you are devoted.
Okay, the next point: Jesus taught that to even have lust for a woman was the same as committing adultery. And he said that to have hatred was the same as committing murder. Now, let's look at what Jesus said to the Pharisees when they brought the woman caught in adultery: "let him who is without sin cast the first stone." You see, Jesus was taking away the ability for anyone to say he (or she) is without sin. Jesus was making it clear, what the Bible was saying in Psalms 14 and Isaiah 53 - that there is no one who is righteous. So, Jesus pointed out to them, that the Law and the prophets buried them with guilt, and they knew the Law well enough to know that.
So, secret #2 is what Paul says in Romans 3:19 "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God." In other words, Jesus was trying to shut them up from trying to perform for self-salvation or to believe they did not need a Savior.
So, here's my point: your heart is sinful and you (in all due respect) need a savior. You cannot save yourself and you can never be good enough to deserve Salvation. None of us can. None of us will ever be good enough.Now, back to your issue with lust. Amanda is right that what you struggle with is common to all of us. But, it's an issue of what you really love. You can never stop sinning by "holding out" or "fighting it". It's like trying to hold your breath under water, no matter how bad it is for you, sooner or later you will inhale. However, when you have a SCUBA tank, you can breathe deeply and be comfortable in the water.
When you are in love with Jesus, you will love what He loves and you will hate what he hates. Your problem isn't women, your problem is that your heart is captivated by sin and you need to breathe the love of Christ as the cure for your condition. You can never out-love Jesus and you can never prove that you deserve it. You can only recognize that Jesus loved you with an everlasting love,that Jesus went to the Cross with passion for you, because He had passion for His Father.By recognizing the love the Jesus has for you, you can begin to respond to Him and love what He loves. You will overcome your issue with lust when you overcome your issue of your heart. Turn you heart to Jesus by receiving the love He has for you and the lust issue will become less and less of a problem.
Secret #3 is: you need to learn to receive the Love of Christ, in order to overcome your own sinful condition.Jesus is the cure that you seek.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
-
Brad,
You need to know that you don't have to change anything before you receive Christ. Christ will make all the changes after you choose to receive Him as your Savior and Lord. Christ will change you through the leading of the Holy Spirit.
Blessings,
Rita
-
-
Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
-
God bless you, Bradley, as you earnestly seek God`s will on this matter of baptism.
Let me share my personal experience concerning this matter.
As mentioned, I was baptized as an infant, confirmed as a Lutheran teenager, grew up knowing something "about" Jesus, but not "knowing" Him. Never reading the Bible, but attending church most of the time. Really just occupying a seat, not really getting anything out of the services. This was probably part of my problem.......... the traditional, denominational, church. Notice, I said MY problem.
But then, later as an adult, I met my future wife. She was a Christian from a small active, independent church. i started going to services with her. After a while we were married. I thought it was time to be baptized. I really wanted to be, so I answered the invitation, and was immersed into the waters of baptism.
I came up out of the water, and guess what?? I DIDN`T FEEL ANY DIFFERENTLY. I DIDN`T REALLY CHANGE MUCH FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.
But then, Bradley, something started working in my life (The Holy Spirit). I can`t tell when it was exactly. I changed in leaps and bounds. And I can say this - I KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT I KNOW , ad infinite, that I will never fall away, or back-slide, or front-slide, or turn my back on Almighty God through Jesus Christ, His Son. Amen.
That`s my story, and I`m sticking to it.
Grace and Peace.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
-
Choco,
In most cases confirmation is the practice of affirming the doctrines of the church. A child is baptized as a baby and then taught the truths of the faith according to that particular organization. The confirmation process is to assess that you know and affirm those doctrines. As important as Scripture is there is another important step that cannot be skipped. The examination is about knowledge of Scripture and often does not look into whether there is a personal relationship with Jesus. Often times this step is missed. The child is baptized and confirmed by the church and thus believed to be a Christian. Yet, one must come to the point of repentance and experience more than affirmation of Scripture. One must experience "transformation." One must be born-again. This is God's work in us.
Jesus said in John 5:39, "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (NIV)
Lord Bless ,
LT -
-
Permalink Reply by Gmaw Pradeep on
-
scribe, dear friend in christ, glad with your response. friend, leave all that about over-emphasis or taking verses out of context. but, i do well know that you agree with me in this that 'harm is very evident not in over-emphasis of baptism but in neglecting our lord's command.' Thank You. in walking with christ, we can talk all these for no harm bcos we are baptized. but, to those that have not reached baptism, its good that lord's command be command, in no way taken lightly. we should always have the zeal of doing things for GOD, not an attitude of sorting out and choosing things to obey. you get the overall picture, friend? :-)Yosef.
-
-
Permalink Reply by John Lemmon on
-
Hi Bradley,
Where to begin!
Others have already noted that there is no scriptural basis for infant baptism so I won't go over that ground again. There may be a case for dedication of infants to the Lord, but not baptism.
As for adults being baptised when they were done as children, there is much to say here. Others have rightly said that there are issues of being aware what baptism is about. An infant cannot comprehend baptism so it is pointless for them. But an adult needs to understand baptism and be baptised. Consider the disciples Paul met at Ephesus who had only received the baptism of John. On hearing and believing in Christ and understanding the truth of baptism they were then re-baptised into the baptism of Jesus Christ. (Acts 19:3-5) So if the baptism of John was insufficient when they had understanding of what that was about, how much more is infant baptism insufficient for a Christian when an infant knows nothing?
Consider also that Jesus himself was baptised even though he did not need to be for he had not sinned. When queried about this by John the Baptist Jesus said of baptism, "Let it be so now for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness." (Matthew 3:15) If it was necessary for Jesus to be baptised to fulfill all righteousness, how much more so for us? Jesus was baptised (full immersion) as an example for us to follow so that we may likewise fulfill all the requirements of righteousness. Can an infant understand these things? No. That is why it is necessary for us as adults to be baptised in water and in the Spirit.
Look also at the comments of Jesus to Nicodemus. Jesus said that, "...unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5) Again this shows the point about it (baptism) being necessary to fulfill all righteousness. Will an unrighteous person enter the kingdom of God? Never. So if baptism is a requirement for righteousness then all should be baptised to enable them to have a chance at entering the kingdom of God.
When should this take place? As soon as possible. If you are having concerns about not being good enough or having to sort yourself out first before being baptised...don't. Jesus was baptised at the commencement of his ministry. The Ethiopian eunuch was baptised by Philip as soon as he had the word opened up to him. The Eunuch said to Philip, "See here is water! What is to prevent my being baptised?" And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart you may." And he replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." (Acts 8:36-37 incl footnote) They went down into the water (full immersion) and he was baptised. Similarly when Philip went into Samaria and preached the good news many men and women were baptised. (Acts 8:12) When Peter stood up at Pentecost and preached to the people the good news there were 3,000 people baptised that day. (Acts 2:37-42) With the exception of Jesus were any of these other people "good enough" to be baptised? I doubt it. Consider that the 3,000 had only a few weeks earlier condemned Jesus to death and were "cut to the heart" about it (Acts 2:37). Being good enough is not the key to baptism. Being repentant and believing in Christ is all that is necessary & he will work out the rest with and for you afterwards.
Baptism is an important step in every Christian's walk and must not be ignored or taken lightly. My recommendation would be to be baptised sooner rather than later.
Hope this has helped and is useful in aiding you to make a decision over this matter.
Your brother in Christ,
John
-
-
-
John (and Richard), I concur. A lot has been said here. I think I would close my thoughts on the topic by saying that Baptism it that act of consecration that is both an act of obedience and an act of discipline. It is at once a statement to Heaven and to Earth that says, I accept that I have received Grace by the power of Christ. I accept that package of the Gospel and I embrace all that Christ has done for me.
Now, here is where some personal insight comes in: it is an act of trust, if done as I understand it. In the tradition that i believe, the baptizer has total control and the disciple has none. You release yourself into the baptizers control, lay backward and allow that person to submerge you and raise you. You have no control, you are simply submitting to the other person.
This becomes a picture then, of what Richard has said here in recent comments, of "shedding" the past life; by releasing yourself to Christ and allowing Him to bury you and raise you anew. It is symbolic, yet that symbol is powerful. I will never forget my baptism. It was life changing to me.
Scribe
-
-
-
Bradley, I think that I would echo what the Ethiopian eunuch said, by asking what prevents your from being baptized? Why do you feel the need to debate it? If you are placing faith in Christ and choosing to follow him, why do you struggle with this? Jesus himself was baptized to "fulfill all righteousness". What's holding you back? Are you afraid to make a public statement that you are choosing this path?
-
-
-
Brad, I am not fit to judge anyone's salvation, whether they were baptized as children or otherwise. So, let's talk about what concerns you at the moment:
First - I commend you for investigating. Many who have been "confirmed" as children just assume that they have a "ticket" and never really consider anything further. [I was raised among traditionalists, so I know this to be true]. I have a strong sense that many who are flippant or cavalier about matters of faith are not truly saved. However, as I said, I'm not fit to judge.
Second, I commend you for continuing to search. But, I want to also caution you. You have received an abundance of wisdom here. Scripture warns against having an attitude of "always seeking and learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the truth". Essentially, the question is not whether you should pray to receive salvation and commit yourself into Christ's hands. Nor is the question whether you should be baptized as an evidence of your faith once you have committed your self to Christ. (You should do both).
The only question is whether you should trust in baptism as a tool of meriting salvation or as a symbolic act of the faith you place in Christ. That's a debatable matter that I do not believe you should get hung upon.
Either way, I would exhort you to place total trust in Christ, pray and seek Him with all of your heart. Ask him to guide you by His word and by His Spirit and - then obey. The rest is an adventure of surrendering self and committing heart and mind and strength to Him, by the power of His Spirit indwelling you. Taking steps of obedience is how we discern truth from error.
It's an adventure you don't want to miss my friend. I have a sense that you are being called by God to make steps of faith, in obedience to His word. In my opinion, your being baptized will make you more aware of that call, because the act of obedience will make your heart and mind more clearly and keenly able to hear His Spirit guiding you.
blessings,
Scribe
-
-
-
Amen, Brother Scribe. Well said!
Like the old comics character, Pogo, said,"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Grace and Peace.
-
Welcome to
All About GOD
The Good News
Meet Face-to-Face & Collaborate
© 2024 Created by AllAboutGOD.com.
Powered by
