Infant baptism

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on July 29, 2011 at 5:53am

The *baptism* we should pay mind to is the *Baptism of the Holy Spirit*.

Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on July 29, 2011 at 11:06pm

Sister Amanda,

 

Thank you for your question regarding baptism/Christian.

I had to stop and think about it because it had never occurred to me. It was always a "done deal".

 

In other words, there was no discussion about being baptized when a person came to the Lord.

Every person that has ever come to me out of the church setting, or answered the invitation at our little church, or any sister church (independent Christian Church, non-denominational) that I know of, has always wanted to be baptized.

 

A new convert from the world coming to Christ, and wanting to prove it , is like a horse and carriage, love and marriage, you can't have one without the other......... couldn't resist.

 

Plus, as a Christian, a person must have the in-dwelling Holy Spirit.

As Rita says, " The baptism we should pay mind to, is the baptism of the Holy Spirit."

Amen to that, Rita. Romans 8:14 tells us that to be children of God, we must be led by the Holy Spirit )(paraphrased).

 

How does that happen?

Acts 2:38 tells us, " And Peter said to them, " Repent, and let each of you be BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.".

I know there are other saints who won't agree with me about the process of receiving this gift, and that's fine.

 

Now, Sis Amanda, back to your question. If a person would come to me and say he/she is a Christian, and never been baptized, for whatever reason, and don't intend to be baptized, I would say that was between them and God. I would not judge him/her. But, I'll tell ya, in my heart I just can't understand why a Christian

wouldn't want to be baptized. 

 

So, hope this makes my position a little more clear on this matter.

 

Grace and Peace.

Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on July 30, 2011 at 5:56pm

My sisters in Christ, Chris and Amanda, bless your hearts,

 

Baptisms I've been involved in have always taken place after the person's public confession of repentance, and statement of belief that Jesus is the Son of  God and his/her Lord and Savior. Now, after that, if the baptism experience is just a matter of "getting wet", that person has lied to the Holy Spirit. And we all know what that could mean. At any rate, as the person comes up out of the water, I congratulate him/her and welcome that person into the Kingdom of God as a saved soul. At this point, I count the person as joining the ranks of Christ.

 

That being said, does this new Christian understand everything about a new standing with God? No, I don't think so. But, the learning and growing process begins with .......Santification.

If this person has really been serious regarding this major life-changing event in his/her life. Will the faith, obedience, and belief grow and flourish over the years????? Was it all fake???? I don't know.

 

Chris, I like your illustration of chalk and cheese.

But, I believe the Holy Spirit had been key somewhere along the line in convicting a person concerning sin, righteousness, and judgment ( John Chapter 16 ). And the Holy Spirit will continue to mentor this person along.

 

Is it the act of baptism itself that saves a person? Good question, Amanda.

Christians have been discussing and debating that question for 2000 years, continuing today. Just look at this forum.

Let me tell you my position. I believe that baptism is an integral part of the redemption process.

Colossians 2:12, " For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with Him you were raised to a new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead." NLT version.

I believe baptism is a public confession of Christ, and a declaration of what He did for me. I remember that I was very glad to do that coming up from my immersion in the waters of baptism.

 

If a person confesses Christ as Lord and Savior, then refuses to be baptized, is that an unforgivable sin? No, not in itself,

 But, are there unknown extenuating circumstances connected with this refusal? Anyway, it's between that person and God Almighty.  

 

Amanda, I think I remember you mentioning that person passing away............

 

Grace and Peace.

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on July 31, 2011 at 6:33am

I agree with Scribe that a new topic should be started.

Yael, when a person accepts Christ as Savior and Lord, his spirit becomes righteous and holy. His soul is the part that needs work, accomplished through regeneration of one's mind. Unless the Lord comes for his church, the body is destined to death. No regeneration can occur there.

If a person doesn't strive to regenerate his mind, he is no less saved.

A person who has been saved has no sin to repent of because God doesn't count their sins. They have been paid for by Christ on the cross. The Christian is perfected as he steps into heaven. There is no need for purgatory. If God can create the universe in 6 days, he can perfect a person instantaneously. A saved person cannot lose his salvation through sin. The only way he can lose his salvation is if he conscientiously rejects God and His gift of eternal life.

God created us in His image....holy, just, fair. Adam and Eve erred and we became less. As we are born again, we become holy, just, fair again. It is up to us to regenerate our minds so that our soul matches our spirit. If we are truly saved, a certain amount of regeneration has begun. This regeneration continues through our life. It will never be completed. Peter quoted Leviticus to tell us to be conscious of our holiness. He is telling us to strive for holiness in our soul. If you are given a new job, do you not try to perfect yourself in that job? This is what Peter is telling us to do.

Christ fulfilled the commands written in the Old Testament. He paid the price that should have been extracted from us. Even the Levitical command that Peter repeated. Our spirits are holy...

Every denomination contrives its own way to teach about God. We actually have God's Word and God's Will written down for us. I wonder why we don't adhere to that written Word? Probably because it is easier to get our knowledge from man rather than God, but is sure puts us way off-base.

 

Blessings,

Rita

 

 

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on August 2, 2011 at 7:13pm

Rita,

The spirit of God is indeed in all, even in a sinner. However, these verses are not in support of your claim that holiness comes automatically through belief (being born again) in Christ. They are simply assuring us that the goodness of God doesn't leave us even though our flesh is weak and sinful.

I have been saying throughout this discussion that repentance is crucial for those who want to put on Christ and become holy. If through Christ we are granted forgiveness, then of course it is because we are sinners in the first place. Should the spirit of God leave us because we sin, there would not be a single person eligible to be saved in the world!

The Bible teaches that all of us sin (Romans 3:23) and that the just compensation for sin is eternal death (Romans 6:23). James articulates this fact in his letter (James 2:10), "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." However, is through repentance that we can obtain the forgiveness earned for us through Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.

The bible also teaches that there are some sins that can separate men from the Grace of God and lead to eternal death.

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it" (1 John 5:16).

However, we may find that if we read 1 John 5:16 in the context of the Gospels we will see that even those sins that John refer to may be forgiven upon repentance, because Jesus assured us that all sins may be forgiven except the sin against the Holy Spirit.

Blessings,

Yael

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on August 2, 2011 at 11:48am

Yael,

⁹ You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact ^xthe Spirit of God dwells in you. ^yAnyone who does not have ^zthe Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. ¹⁰ But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. ¹¹ If the Spirit of ^ahim who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies ^bthrough his Spirit who dwells in you.

^x ver. 11; 1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; 2 Tim. 1:14

^y Jude 19; [John 14:17]

^z See Acts 16:7

^a See Acts 2:24

^b [2 Cor. 3:6]

The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Ro 8:11

I think it would be a good idea if you reread what we do receive when we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. Not necessarily what man says we receive but what GOD says we receive. Check out all the marvelous things that God has given us through having Christ in us. You will be truly amazed and will quickly disbelieve those who would have you think that salvation is less than what God says it is.

After you investigate what I have written, then come back and we will talk again.

Blessings,

Rita

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on August 2, 2011 at 7:03pm

 

Hi Rita,

I am trying to post a reply but there must be a bug or something, because my comments keep being fragmented...

I will try again later.

blessing,

Yael

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2011 at 8:40pm

Greetings all,

 

The comments in this forum, including mine, have gone way off topic. This forum will be closed for now. If anyone wishes to follow up on the various topics being discussed that have left the posted topic they should start a new forum or locate an older one regarding that topic.

 

LT

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