"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 28, 2013 at 6:04am

Janie,

 

Beloved you understand much more than you give credit for and that's ok. It is better than to think we understand it all. :)

 

No human being in the history of humanity (including Adam and Eve, they hid) have come to God for salvation unless God by various means has done a work in that person, that work can be and it is, in different stages for different people, but without God working in our hearts we are content with our sin and are at war with God who wants us to surrender our will to his. People get convicted at church by the power of the Gospel, in whatever form the Gospel is given to them (praise and worship, messages, written, dramas etc...), but unless God breaks through their NATURAL resistance towards him, they continue to place that work aside.

 

>>Are there people who will repent and think they want God and people who really want God but instead God says no way?

 

 

God's will of disposition wants all men to be save, but his desires and not always decrees/commandments. thought He desires all men to be saved He does not make all men to be saved. Christ death paid for the sins of the people God was redeeming and it spills over to cover the sins of anyone that comes, but men don't come on under their own will to salvation. Salvation only happens when God intervenes in the heart of men.

 

>>It seems theses people who He says deprt I knew you not... really believe they are born again and chosen.

 

 

Those people did not want God, they wanted the glory that other fallen men give men who supposedly have a relationship with God. they were self serving and hypocrites who thought themselves wise. God who knows the intentions of the heart reveals those intentions to them on the day they are before him. But that is not to say that God will turn anyone away who is truly repentant of their sin, but again, no one, according to scripture, gets to repent unless God has done a work in their heart.

 

>>Why would someone live for god and not know they are not saved. How can they know or NOT know that God is or isn't showing mercy?

 

 

Those people were living for their flesh and not God's glory. God knows his own and his own know him. The assurance of our salvation comes from knowing that God is not a liar and by God assuring us of that truth as well in our inner - most. People around the world, millions think themselves right with God, but God does not "know" them as his people for various reasons. The born again know they are born again, because they live constantly being convicted of their sin and in turn repenting of it and seeking to die to self and this life.

 

I don't know your heart or mind beloved. But I see you from your writings as my sister in Christ. It is obvious to me that you are a child of God, but only you and God know that for sure.

 

I know that I know that I know that I know I know that I know that I know that I know that I am his and He is mine, because I love him and I hate my sin.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 28, 2013 at 6:27am

Janie,

 

I believe that David and I agree on this point. No one seeks after God on their own. Salvation requires God calling the person unto Himself. Salvation is the work of God on man's behalf. Where David and I differ is on the final process that leads to new birth. David believes Scripture teaches that God regenerates (born again) the person and then they yield to Christ. I believe Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit works on the person (repentance process) which includes when the gospel is shared the person is given the liberty to receive or reject Jesus and either remain lost or are born again based on whether they receive or reject Jesus.

 

Matthew 7 is an interesting passage. I believe that this is indicative of many who are in churches today. They follow a religious code, but never really meet Jesus. They think because they have kept the rules, prayed a prayer, and served the church institution that they are good to go. They can even express a type of love, but the love is directed at the church and falls short of truly loving Jesus.

 

Two of my favorite questions:

#1: Do you love Jesus?  Not simply the thing so God, heaven the church, but Jesus Himself. Are you in love with Him?

#2: If all you had was Jesus would you be satisfied? If everything you had was stripped away and all you had was Jesus would you be content in Him?

 

You do not need to respond to this here, but I would ask you to ponder them.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Seek on August 28, 2013 at 6:58am

For Janie's sake, I want to address a bit of what each of you have said. 

LT, your two questions, knowing what can cause us to question our salvation as I have done so myself...Do you love Jesus?  There was a long time when I asked myself that.  I thought no.  I mean....I wanted to do the right thing, I wanted Him to change me, make me a more caring person, use me for something more than myself...but LOVE Him?  Problem is, I didn't really know what love was, and that is why I questioned...do I love Him?  After several years, I can say now that I do.  And I know that love is growing.  The Spirit would speak to me internally and assure me that I did love Jesus but that I was emotionally broken and didn't know how to express love. 

Secondly, if all I had was Jesus would I be satisfied?  To that I also thought no.  Satisfied?  I was hurting so much.  In my heart, I determined I wasn't going to give up with God, regardless of the hurt, but if I was to be "satisfied" then God was going to have to put something deeper into my heart or give me some sort of revelation that would enable me to be satisfied even in pain. 

Pondering those questions to one who questions their salvation can have an adverse affect at times.  Therefore, my change on these to Janie would be...

Do you WANT to love Jesus?

Do you WANT to be satisfied with Jesus regardless of everything else?

Because if those questions are yes, then God will help you to fall in love with Him and be satisfied. 

It is obvious to me that you are a child of God,

Amen and amen!  Thank you for telling her that.

but only you and God know that for sure.

Problem is, she doesn't know it for sure.  I fought with that myself.  I now do know it.  But it took me a long time to reach that point.  I had people telling me they could see me growing even if I couldn't see it.  People telling me they KNEW I was right with God even while I was still questioning if I was.  We have to keep encouraging one another.  I believe God uses that encouragement to finally give us revelations inside, to bring us to a better point of knowing and stop struggling with various questions. 

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 28, 2013 at 7:03am

Seek,

 

I think your questions are good, but would only ask them after I answered the ones I posted, if I need to go there because I cannot affirmatively answer the two I posted. One needs to know where they stand and work from there. 

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Seek on August 28, 2013 at 7:15am

My only problems with the ones you posted is that a year ago, they'd have made me feel even more like I wasn't saved, like I was never chosen.  Sorry to say, but my mind was so warped with thinking no one actually cared about me and that I was simply no good and cursed, etc.  That asking those questions, and hearing such sermons, left me feeling as if God hated me because I must not love Him like I thought I should or something.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 28, 2013 at 7:30am

And at the same time it does no good to tell someone they are OK when maybe they are not. Diagnostic questions are important. If I cannot say I love Jesus I need to ponder why, especially if I am interested in Christ because that means something is going on inside, the Holy Spirit is working.

 

What good would it have done you if people would have said "Seek, don't worry about it. You are doing good, just keep on the path you are on and everything will be OK. Could it be that you are where you are today because you heard such sermons and were asked such questions, even though at the time they did not feel good?

 

Lord Bless,

LT

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Seek on August 28, 2013 at 7:32am

No.  I was actually spending time with God every day and hearing in my Spirit that I was growing and that I was ok.  But my "feelings" weren't allowing me to believe that because my feelings and emotions were so warped.  I was hearing from others two different things and from the Spirit, He kept saying I was growing.  He'd convict me of things and such, but then I still felt I wasn't doing enough and maybe I was just cursed and that's why all the bad kept happening. 

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 28, 2013 at 7:34am

You are free to believe that hearing the messages and being asked pertinent questions had no positive effect ... I disagree, but will leave it at that.

 

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Seek on August 28, 2013 at 7:44am

I'm not saying being asked questions or hearing the message didn't have positive effect.  What I'm trying to say is that sometimes the way we word the question can cause more condemnation unless we also provide additional info.  It's like where I spoke of the inheritance and you thought someone might get the idea about "stuff".  True.  And with this, I'm thinking, because of what I went through as well...someone could also get the idea that they must not love God enough and therefore give up even trying to.  What kept me from quitting was the positive messages I was getting, because the ones condemning me made me feel even moreso that I was cursed.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 28, 2013 at 8:05am

Seek,

 

I will conclude with two remarks.

1) I too believe she has given her heart to Jesus, but what I think is not as important as the whether this is true or not. I want her to know for certain that she has received Jesus as Savior and been forgiven. I sometimes ask hard questions because it is important for the person to know and not just assume or that we may stop trying to help the person be sure because we assume (not saying you have stopped trying).

2) I praise the Lord for the growth and difference I see in you. God has been at work!

 

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Seek on August 28, 2013 at 9:16am

LOL Oh I have definately not stopped trying.  Seems the more questions I finally get straight in my head, the more questions I have crop up to replace them!  ;-)

Unless you meant stop trying to help the person (they changed the bus route on me and I left home at the crack of dawn and I'm sleepy).  In that case, no, haven't stopped that either.  I'm just more of the encourage them to get in the Word and renew their mind and know that as long as they are doing all they can to seek God, they will get there.  That's one of the major problems is that some feel they don't understand the Word or they don't find time to stick to it.  And there are so many ways to do it.  I'm a pusher on that. 

Hey I even felt condemned by the Word many times on areas I THOUGHT I was failing at but was reading into it wrongly.  Like if it said only the righteous would inherit the kingdom, I would think it was saying I wasn't righteous.  DO'H!

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 28, 2013 at 7:51am

Absolutely there must be follow-up. But you have to start at some point and it is better to start at the goal and work back to figure out where a person is in this case. Then you walk with them from there.

 

I have known Janie on TheNET a long time and she knows my wife and I care for her deeply (She can respond to this if she wishes to affirm) and I have asked these questions of her before. I am and have been willing to walk with her at her pace through this, but we must never give a person a false sense of security to simply make them feel better. I want her to know she is loved by Jesus and has a hope in Him. She is not one who cannot ever be saved, but can be, and may already be, saved in Christ. She needs assurance and this can only come from Him, but we can walk with her in the process.

 

Janie, if I said to much or put you on the spot tell me and I will delete this posting.

 

Lord Bless,
LT

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