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How can we know that we are attending the right church/ religion?
How is it that we are joing many different churches, and yet we claim of going into the same direction - Christ? In my place, these issues are very common. My late mom once said that, we should not convert into other churches because the church that we are following is the right one? And what about other religions? As we can see, every religion claimsto its followers that it is the only right religion and teachings to be followed. How can we describe and sort out from this? Do not get me wrong, for i am just seeking for an answer to clarify my doubts.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Natasha Mayes on
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Hi there, Stanley!
In my group (Prophesy) we have been spending the last few weeks discussing the Lord's discription of the different churches as depicted in the 1st three chapters of Revelation. My brother Glen, posted there a piece on the church of Philedelphia, which is the second to last church discussed in Revelation. This church is the "master copy" from which all churches should be moddelled. While it has been said those churches are not relevant to today, I believe those descriptions are more relevant today than ever before. If you read through those three chapters, you can form an idea of what God expects His churches to be like. A short summation might be the following: the "right church" is true to the Word of God in it's entirety.
In other words, such a church will teach the solid doctrine that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. That we cannot be saved by anything that we do or don't do. That the only way to stand blameless before God, is to pray for forgiveness of your sins through the Blood of His only begotten Son. (No one can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ)That we have to believe and have faith in the One that God had elevated as such that He has all the power and authority over everything. Such a church will probably be missionary-minded, having understood the absolute necessity of having Christ in our hearts, and will want to make sure that as many people as possible knows this. Such a church won't be bothered by "what the people may say or do". They will give their last breath to testify that Jesus is Lord, and if you are not born-again, you will not inherrit life everlasting.
Be blessed this day
Natasha
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Permalink Reply by Jared on
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I would suggest you find a Christian Chruch that you can grow in. I don't agree with all the minor details that my Church stands for but i get some good out of going there.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Tim,
The key to your question has two factors.
1) There are primary and secondary issues within the church. One may say that "truth is truth" and that would be correct, but not all truth has the same impact on our lives or our eternal lives. Most denominations, if they truly believe in Jesus and trust the Bible, agree on the core issues of the faith. Many of the difference deal with method, mode, or form and are not central to salvation or growth, but are deemed secondary. You can travel to any town in the U.S. and find ministeriums that meet together. Pastors from various backgrounds come together around Jesus and set aside secondary issues in order to fellowship, pray and engage in ministry together to effect their respective cities. Around the world you will find the same and on the mission field you will find various groups working together for the glory of God.
2) Why do we differ on these secondary issues? We are not perfected in our undeerstanding. God's Word never changes, but we have various ways that people approach it and thus we have different takes on certain issues. One example is whether a person reads the Bible from a literal POV or from and allegoric POV. Both will still agree on the centrality of Jesus and the necessity of His sacrifice. They will agree that man must come to repentance and accept Jesus in order to be forgiven and saved, yet differ on things relating to end time events.
The use of the number 38,000 makes it sound like the church is in such a state of disarray. That would be possble if the 38,000 were so vastly different on the core issues and if someone had the ability to research them all you would find many duplications (meaning they believe the exact same thing). You would also find that some that are called denominations are actually cults. Within the Christian church most of the variants are small and secondary issues when dealing with those who hold to the pimary doctrines of the Christian faith. Here are two examples. 1) The Christian and Missionary Alliance and the Assemblies of God have the same basic doctrine to the exception of the "evidence doctrine." This is not central to salvation in either denomination. Important to each, but not a primary issue. 2) There are some who insist that baptism is to be by immersion and some insist that it is by sprinkling. The debate as important as it is to the respective groups is not central to salvation and our knowledge of God, God the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Now back to you last question:
Find out what they believe about Jesus, the Word of God and salvation. There is not as much disunity on this among the true church as many would try to have others believe.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Sam on
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“How is it that we are joing many different churches, and yet we claim of going into the same direction”
That is a very good question, and one that should be of concern to all Christians. The Bible states that there should be no divisions among us. Paul said that there is only 'one faith'. (Ephesians 4:19) At 1 Corinthians 1:10 he said that Christians ”should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you”.
Yet modern Christians are anything if not divided. It would be a mistake to simply pass these divisions off as harmless squabbles over non-essential doctrine. Consider what took place among Christians in the first century. There was a real division over whether gentile Christians ought to be circumcised in accord with Jewish practice. Did it really matter if Greek Christians got circumcised? Was such a minor thing a matter of salvation?
On the surface, it might not seem like it. After all, what does it have to do with Christ? Well, it was far from trivial to the apostle Paul and the older men in Jerusalem. You can read their decision on the matter in Acts 15. The important lesson is this: even 'minor' doctrinal points are important to Christians. We must be fitly united. We must speak in agreement.
And the things that divide us are far from trivial. Take the nature of Christ. Some say that he is a part of a Trinity. Others do not. My pentecostal father-in-law rejects the Trinity but believes that Jesus and the Father are the same, even though his own church preaches the Trinity. Some Christians believe that Christ existed in heaven before he lived on earth. Others do not. I could go on, but you get the point.
Interestingly, Jesus himself and others prophesied that there would be divisions among Christians in our day, and he indicated the reasons for this sad state of affairs. In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: “Not everyone saying to me: 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in heaven will. Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?' And yet I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.” -Matthew 7:21-23
Read the account of Jesus' illustration of the Wheat and the Weeds at Matthew 13:24-43 and ask yourself, 'who are the Wheat, and who are the Weeds'? If there are Wheat, then there must be Weeds as well.
Tim posed a great question. How can we identify the truth?
The early Christians based their beliefs firmly on the Bible. Paul said, “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16,17)
Our beliefs and practices must not be founded on human views or traditions. They must originate in God's Word. Even seemingly minor beliefs, if not based on the Bible, must be rejected as unwholesome. (1 Corinthians 10:21)
Jesus set the example for us. How many times did he back up a statement with these words: “It is written.”?
Sam
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Amen bro. Well said, I enjoyed reading your post.
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Sam,
Without a doubt "Unity" is a Biblical principle taught in Scripture. That is the easy part. May I ask you to present a working model of how we see the following come together in the perfect unity you describe while still in the imperfected flesh living in a corrupted world.:
Liberal and a fundemantal.
Pentecostal and non-pentecostal.
Amellennialist, postmellenialist, and premillennialist.
Calvanist and Armenian
Literalist and allegorist.
Baptism views.
Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath and no rapture views.
Once Saved Always Saved and one can lose their salvation.
Those are just a few. Keep in mind that all of the above believe that they are following the Bible and listening to the Spirit of God.
Interested in your response.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT & Tim,
If I didn't know better, I'd think the two of you are conspiring to goad me into stepping on someone's toes! I'll see if I can avoid doing that while still answering your questions.
Tim asked:, “So what might be an example of a "human view" or "tradition" that could be at the root of the divisions we find in Christianity? What did you mean by that”?
Consider these scriptures.
Jesus answered: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.” -John 18:36
Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.” -Matthew 26:52
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” -John 17:16
What did those words mean to Jesus? How did his early followers live by them? It should be easy to see how failing to heed those words has done much to divide Christians today.
LT said: “Keep in mind that all of the above believe that they are following the Bible and listening to the Spirit of God”.
The key word here is believe. They believe they are correct, but not all of them are. They cannot be. Either there will be a rapture, or there won't be. Either one is always saved, or one is not. Both cannot be true, therefore someone is right, and someone is wrong.
I am by no means suggesting that we attempt to unite all the disparate groups that claim the title 'Christian', as if that could be done. Such a view would be idealistic.
What I am suggesting is that every Christian has the responsibility to equip himself with knowledge, not just the teachings of the Lord, but of the entire Bible. Again, how many times did Jesus support a statement with the words 'it is written'?
Somewhere down the line people started to introduce ideas that were out of harmony with Scripture. They started teaching things that were not 'written'. Jesus and others said this would be so. If I were called upon to present a model of how an individual should proceed to separate scriptural teachings from those that are not scriptural, I would start with 2 Timothy 3:16,17
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Sam,
If two people disagree on the rapture or whether one is always saved or not is it not possible that both are Christians even though they disagree on these issues? The Word is not in error, but we are not yet perfected in our understanding. Many of the differences, the secondary issues, do nothing to take away from the fact that we are one in Christ. We come together in Jesus growing in grace, knowledge and understanding.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Tim,
We are not discussing obvious errors, but debatable differences. I chose the group I posted carefully. The subject matters have been debated by well educated and trained people who love Jesus. In these subjects we see people in the various camps.
Voodoo does not even come into the picture here and is out of place in the conversation. I am referring to biblical doctrines that people have varied views on, but yet still love Jesus and can come together and worhip the Lord together because these differences are secondary.
The only exclusion on the list is the "Liberal" view. To me that is not secondary, but to others it may be.
My response was prompted because of the concept posted in this forum that there are no secondary issues. If perfect unity on all subjects is expected in this life we have no hope, because we are all works in progress.
Lord Bless,
LT
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I only mentioned voodoo to illustrate a point by accentuating the obvious. Even though there are millions of people around the world who call themselves Christian and yet dabble in voodoo, the vast majority of believers reject any interest in such pagan beliefs and practices. And clearly any practicer of voodoo once learning what the Bible teaches on the subject would also reject such false religious belief.
You say that you only mention voodoo to accentuate the obvious and then you proceeded to argue against your own point by addressing voodoo again as if it is comparable to one’s understating regarding the list I presented previously. Involvement in voodoo is not similar to one believing in one of the various views regarding the rapture. Voodoo involves false gods. A view on the rapture is what one understands regarding God’s work within His timeline as He deals with His people. If you follow voodoo you will only find a false god. If you follow a rapture view you will find God even if your view were wrong and it happens in some other way.
Since we can agree on the ridiculous, then it's not so much a stretch to see the same thing played out with more subtle differences found throughout the realm of Christendom.
We agree on the absurdity of using voodoo in this thread at all. Your next assumption is not only a stretch, but a leap that cannot be made. You assume way too much regarding those who practice voodoo and say they are believers and then try to somehow connect the dots from that error that involves a false god to a belief based upon one’s interpretation of God’s Word. That does not work. It simply is not an apples for apples comparison. You have erected a bridge to nowhere in that illustration.
I know of no scripture or scriptural principle that allows for any variation of belief among true believers. Whereas, 1 Cor 1:10 makes this direct command: "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
Lets look at two things here regarding God’s Word. What is the context of 1 Corinthians 1:10? The Corinthian believers were aligning themselves with various people and trying to follow them. Some were following Paul, some Apollos, some Peter and some Christ. Do you see the specific error that Paul is addressing? He is addressing the division in their belief regarding who they follow. This unity he addresses is that we be found all following Christ and does not intimate complete unity on every subject. They were developing the church of Paul, the church of Apollos, the church of Peter and the church of Christ.
This is Paul writing and commanding that they be unified in following Christ. The same Paul that had a dispute so strong with Barnabas over Mark that they separated and went different ways. Wait, that cannot be! Where is the unity? One of them must be wrong and going to hell because believers are always in agreement, no? Of course not. They separated and God used both to bring glory to His name. They agreed to disagree.
Regarding debatable matters on secondary issues simply read Romans 14 and soak in it for a day or two. This is the same Paul that said what you present as a universal truth that all believers must agree on every subject or they are as equally guilty as if they practiced voodoo. Keep in mind threads work two ways. If you use your logic to work down from voodoo is applied to debatable matters then you have to use that same logic to work back up the thread. This just is not true.
You may also want to read Philippians 3:15-16. Paul points out that we are not perfected, but rather works in progress (Philippians 1:6).
True believers, people who love Jesus, will disagree on various subjects. They can agree to disagree on those secondary issues and work together for the glory of God. (This is the thrust of my position)
I will add one more comment regarding this particular thought. One will argue that the 1 Corinthians 1 is the same thing as denominations today. Men follow denominations instead of Christ. If someone puts their denomination or church affiliation above Christ they are a fool and missed the mark. My master is the Lord Jesus who is my Savior. I serve Him through a denomination. My loyalty is to Him not the organization. If they stray doctrinally I will be out of there without hesitation. Too often people attack denominations and state they prefer non-denomination churches. I always chuckle when I hear this. A non-denominational church is a denomination unto itself. They have a belief/view regarding all the major topics. They teach in a certain way, etc.. Take any two N.D. churches and compare them. Will they agree on every last issue? Add two or three more and check to see what they believe and you will find variants, but hopefully you find the same Jesus and the same understanding regarding salvation.
So we can go back to Sam's point about a Christian's being no part of the world. His argument was based on God's Word and is sound.
His argument is sound up to the point where it appears to me that he believes that this unity on every subject must be achieved in this life while living in the corrupted flesh and affected by the fallen world. We are to aspire to unity and be able to work around or through our differences.
The question is, Can a denomination of Christendom proudly send its sons and daughters out to kill fellow Christians and stay in God's favor? Can a member of such a denomination remain in this group and still claim they are worshipping God in spirit and truth? (John 4:23)
Like your introduction of “voodoo” into this thread you now attempt to introduce another view that has nothing to do with this thread. If you think war is wrong or that believers are being sent to kill fellow believers start a new forum on that and we will gladly discuss it. It is not germane to this topic and forum in regards to unity.
We disagree on this. One of us is wrong, in fact, both of us could be wrong. Do you believe one of our salvations is in jeopardy? I do not base my relationship with Jesus on how well I agree with others. I base it on Jesus work on my behalf as I trust in Him. I recognize I am a work in progress and that my view on secondary issues may change over time to the point I might be in a different camp at some point in the future, but still in Christ kingdom. I am confident that my views on the primary things will be tweaked, not changed.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Tim,
Perhaps where we differ is in what we consider false worship. What seems reasonable to me is that God is the one who decides what is true and what is false.
It is also God who determines who He will accept or reject and why. We all are at different points of maturity and thus different points of understanding. My point is that there are people who love Jesus with all their heart and seek to surrender to Him fully and yet disagree on secondary issues (voodoo is not a secondary issue) with equally devoted Christians. God does not reject either. He accepts both and will continue to work in them drawing them to Himself. Too often we focus on the line and forget to look up and see Jesus. We often tend to squabble in the sandbox while Jesus wonders if we will pay Him any attention at all. We are unified in our Savior. We are unified in our faith, but differ on certain points of Scripture that are not teachings that lead to false gods or lead people away from God. The idea that they are false doctrine is an interesting concept. It depends on the definition one applies to the term. There is not one person a live who has it all right. So if we apply the strictest definition possible we all teach, present or live according to some false doctrine(s). If we understand that we are works in progress and seeking to live up to what we have already attained knowing that God will work out the differences and where these misguided understanding do not take away from the relationship we have in Christ, but refer to secondary issues we can learn to agree to disagree as we all march toward the same Jesus together in unity of faith, but differing on some points of understanding..
He has made this known through his written Word. Part of that written Word is the letters of the Apostle Paul and when he wrote his first letter to the Corinthian congregation he elaborated on what it means to be a true worshipper--a true Christian. He mentioned not becoming a follower of men such as Paul, Peter or Apollos.
I disagree with the premise you present. He does not elaborate on what it means to be true, but what a maturing Christian will look like. You appear to be putting legalism in the mix. Are you saying that unless a person lives exactly like this and are right on all subjects He is lost? The concept of them not becoming followers of men is deeper than just becoming a follower of man’s ways. We must be focused on Christ and following Him. God uses people in our lives to help us, but we never settle for anyone less than Jesus. He is our goal and true example.
Supposedly those three men were teaching the same things so Paul's admonition could be taken strictly to the point that Christians shouldn't follow men.
You assume that they were teaching the same thing. I seriously doubt they were exact on all issues and the bible illustrates to the contrary based on their maturity and understanding.
Acts 18:24 Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.
We can't, at this point, invoke the argument about Paul and Barnabas having a heated exchange over John Mark--that somehow this allows for nuances is Christian thinking. They disagreed on a traveling companion and not on doctrine. They remained unified as to Christian thinking.
I disagree. What they did was a result of their understanding. One rejected a brother in Christ and the other showed grace and wanted to give him another chance. All decisions we make are based upon our understanding. Is forgiveness and restoration a doctrine?
I still have yet to read in scripture anything that allows for disparity of belief. At Philippians 3:15-16 Paul wasn't discussing what a Christian believes, but what a Christian does.
What a Christian does is determined by what he believes. There is unity here between belief and action. Paul says that where they think differently God will make clear their understanding (future growth). Only live up to what you have already attained (living now). Thus, do not get bogged down in secondary issues.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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