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Genesis 18 and 19
Genesis 18
The Son of Promise 1 Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre,[a] as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.”They said, “Do as you have said.”
Abraham Intercedes for Sodom 16 Then the men rose from there and looked toward Sodom, and Abraham went with them to send them on the way. 17 And the LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing, 18 since Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 19 For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the LORD, to do righteousness and justice, that the LORD may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him.” 20 And the LORD said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, 21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”
Genesis 19 Sodom’s Depravity1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. 2 And he said, “Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.”And they said, “No, but we will spend the night in the open square.”
I just wondered what others thoughts were on Genesis 18-19. Because 3 'men' appear to Abraham but only 2 visit Lot. I read that some think it is the Godhead that Abraham sees. But don't men mean angels?
Any thoughts?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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My thoughts are that it was "the Angel of the Lord" (Christ) and two other angels. The Old Testament speaks frequently of the "Angel of the Lord" whom I think is Christ.
Blessings,
Rita
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Permalink Reply by Bible-Talk on
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Reminds me of Hebrews 13:2 ..... incredible stuff isn't it?
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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Lucy
When I read 18 and 19. I see how Abraham prayed. In that prayer, he at least was able to get, Lot and his family out before the two Angels destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. I read the Lord spoke, to Abraham and Sarah laughed in unbelief. Just a thought here, everywhere else when Angels appeared they always had to say, "fear not." I think that in itself shows something. I would agree w/ Rita, I think it was Jesus w/ two Angels.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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In the Old Testament there are Christophanies and Theophanies. The first is the appearances of Christ before his incarnate state, the other are appearances of Yahweh.
Genesis 18-19 is widely believed by most to be an appearance of Yahweh more than an appearance of Christ. The title Lord was commonly used at the time of Abraham. His wife called him Lord, but then in verses 22 through 32 we see him using the word master and Lord as is only applied to the Lord of lords.
The visitor spoke of himself as Lord in verse 14, which leads us to believe that this is a Theophony.
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
. . .
31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
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David,
Websters says that a Christophany is: an appearance of Christ after resurrection especially as recorded in the Gospels
Theophany is a physical presentation or personal manifestation of a deity to an individual : a brief appearance of Deity *the glorious theophany in which Jehovah will avenge himself of his adversaries— R.H.Pfeiffer*2 : something manifesting or revealing deity *in earlier Hebrew traditions angels had often been direct theophanies— George Santayana* *an enchanted world where every living thing was a theophany— Evelyn Underhill
By Webster's definitions it can't be a Christophany so it has to be a Theophany...but...by definition it could be either God or an angel so the answer *theophany* isn't really an answer.
Blessings,
Rita
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Rita,
Scholars have been using the term”Christophony” to describe both Old and New Testament appearances of Christ for a long time.
In the Old Testament, it is common to see LORD in upper case letters (actually in small caps). In these cases, the Hebrew word is יהוה (Yahweh). This is the personal name of God (see Exodus 3:13-15 and Exodus 6:2-3).
Several centuries before Jesus, Jews stopped pronouncing this name as it was considered too sacred, and they started to substitute the word Adonay (Lord) instead whenever they came across the word Yahweh. Following that tradition, almost all English translations also translate Yahweh as Lord. But to highlight that it is the personal name of God, it is printed in all capitals as LORD. The passages we are discussing have the word LORD in caps to denote Yahweh.
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David,
When I don't know what a word means, I get out the dictionary and look it up. I am relating what the dictionary says the word means.
Also, God the Father is Spirit. So...if someone saw the Lord, it would have to be Christ. Or an angel but..... in the case of Abraham, I think the message was from Christ our Lord.
I try to keep the Trinity working throughout the entire Bible. Because of this, I try to understand Who is doing and saying what. The word God encompasses the 3 Persons so I strive to see which of the 3 is the lead in a particular situation. The fact that the 3 are in agreement goes without saying.
Blessings.....
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Beloved Rita,
Our brother Noah Webster did a wonderful job with the dictionary. Truly and amazing work, but due to its grandiose undertaking the work is not an extensive definition of every word, but that does not take from its beauty, for it does what it was intended to do.
We are blessed to live in the information age where we have Bible Dictionaries, lexicons and many other helps to determine the many uses of a word and its roots. Christ was also a Spirit before He took flesh upon himself, so God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit can take physical form or I suppose any form they desire to take, at any point in time.
Love and blessings sister
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The Bible says no one has seen the Father nor can they.
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Amen Rita,
hahaha you just won’t let it go hu? hahaha Not laughing at you beloved, just laughing at the fact that we have enough bible to carry on and on. It is good to exercise our theological nugget. :)
No one has seen the Father as a Spirit, but that does not mean that they have not seen an appearance of the Father in bodily form, but I believe it means that no one has seen the Father for who He really is as that is the Job of Jesus. Jesus manifests the Father to us. If you see Jesus, you have seen the Father. The verse does not have to do with actually seeing the Father in a physical sense.
Beloved this is another one of those topics I will not contend deeply. It really makes no difference to me whether it was God the Father or God the Son visiting Abraham. As you have noted before the deity is in perfect agreement and union.
46. Not that any man hath seen the Father.
The majesty of God is so lofty, that the senses of men cannot reach him. When he says that he alone hath known the Father, he means that it is an office which belongs peculiarly to himself, to manifest God to men, who would otherwise have been concealed.
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