From the Pit of Hell

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 13, 2010 at 12:41am

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 13, 2010 at 5:17am

The book he refers to in the second video, "The Case for Christ," is an excellent book to read for one seeking evidence that the Bible is trustworthy. Another book worth noting is by Josh McDowell called "Evidence That Demands a Verdict." Both give detailed information that supports the Bible.

Several other books worth noting:
Beyond Belief to Conviction - by Josh McDowell
The Case for the Creator - Lee Strobel
The Case fort he Real Jesus - Lee Strobel

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 13, 2010 at 3:03am

Your question is a good one. Many times people will raise an objection to a Christian's belief in the Bible as being the infallible word of God. They claim that using the Bible to support the Bible is "circular reasoning" ( testing the validity of an idea by its own pronouncements). This is not so.

We must first remember in discussing the claims of the Bible with anyone, that the Bible is not a single, autonomous work. Rather, it is a collection of 66 different books written over a vast time span in three languages on three continents with authors from every station in life. These ancient works cover every major topic dealing with the human condition including: love, hate, death, sin, marriage, civil laws, and relationships with each other as well as with God. Although these works were written independently, they show an amazing congruency and they never contradict each other!

When Paul writes "All scriptures is inspired by God (II Tim 3:16)", his primary reference is the Old Testament, which was completed 400 years previously. This is not to say that the verse doesn't apply to the New Testament as well, but Paul's subject matter was the Scriptures Timothy was taught as a child. Paul believes the Scriptures are "God-breathed"; that is they hold the same authority as if God were to come down and speak to you directly. Every word recorded in the original documents is considered to be chosen by God.

So, our first point is that the testimony of Paul establishes a point of view that holds the Scriptures very highly. We know that the early church believed the Scriptures were inspired, we must now find out how to demonstrate that fact. Before going too far, I would ask your friend what type of evidence is he willing to accept to demonstrate the Bible as the Word of God? We obviously cannot go into a laboratory and test for "God residue" on the text, so to ask for scientific proof is impossible. (Likewise, asking for scientific proof that one loves his spouse is absurd. True science is limited to making claims on that which it can disprove through experimentation. Since science does not have any objective standards for measuring "God-ness", it cannot be asked to make a determination on His existence.) This doesn't mean we cannot reach a satisfactory conclusion based on the evidence before us, though.

What we are really interested in, then, is to determine if the Bible is a book that is the true words of God given to men, or is it merely the words of men written about God? If it is the latter, then it should display characteristics like those of other books written by men about God. It really shouldn't be all that different from many other works we possess. However, if it did come from God... well it should be astoundingly different. It should be a very one of a kind collection. It should be unique.

Let's examine what we do know about the Bible and see if it aligns with what we'd expect from a message whose source is God. We'll accept the premises that God exists and He created humanity with a desire to know Him. Anyone questioning these ideas is arguing another point; one which must be addressed separately. In his landmark Evidence That Demands a Verdict, Josh Mc Dowell notes that if God created man with a desire to know Him, we would expect His message to have some unique properties:(1)

•It would be widely distributed so man could attain it easily
•It would be preserved through time without corruption
•It would be completely accurate historically.
•It would not be prone to scientific error or false beliefs held by the people of that time.
•It would present true, unified answers to the difficult questions of life.
The Bible stands alone as the only religious text that can claim it meets all the above criteria. I think it would be helpful if we compare the Bible with some of the other ancient texts and see just how unique the Bible is.



Read more: http://comereason.org/cmp_rlgn/cmp005.asp#ixzz0fPPeNj02

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on February 13, 2010 at 8:58am

Thank you to all who are participating.
Now we are getting somewhere. Somewhere where one looking for the truth, will have several reference points. Someone who may need help in this area can get a mine of information, rather than a squabble with another who
has a pet theory. Keep it coming..... AND YES! Josh Mc Dowell's book "Evidence that demands a verdict" is a landslide of information. A book that every serious Christian should have on his shelves... Roll On Christians!!!!.
Blessings
Ron

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on February 13, 2010 at 12:03pm

Excellent! "par Exellence: Thank you Dave, thank you LT, plus Rita and Theresa, you all exceeded yourselves.

Now a question to those who through these replies have developed a greater respect for the Bible.

Please, Let's hear from you or if you have a question you need answering, or if this has been of any help to you? Would you want more in this form of challenge to those who have the ability to answer?
I will gladly play the role of "Devil's Advocate" to squeeze out the information from these Biblical Warriors.

Thank you guys, I knew you were up to the mark READY WILLING AND ABLE to give these erudite answers.

Should anyone want to still add to these answers please feel free until we get started with another theme or series which will be placed under another forum.
Lord Bless each one of you and Thanks again.
Your Brother in Christ.
Hey Carla, Love you..... It was your idea! I hope it meets with your approval?
Ron.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on February 13, 2010 at 12:54pm

Thank you Ron.. Excellent! I will respond later... It is a busy family weekend!

God Bless and Thanks for taking this one on! ~Carla

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Permalink Reply by Carla on February 13, 2010 at 9:53pm

it is written...

So miserable wretch, what makes you believe that you have attained eternal life?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Your heart is still laden with sin, your mind continues it’s desperately wicked thoughts.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Time after time you fail in your righteous promises for today, just as you did yesterday.

Phl 1:6 {For I am} confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

What hope is there for you tomorrow when you stand with one foot in the grave and the other in Hell? What you say and what you do are two different things. Meanwhile you are hopelessly lost!

Rom 8:35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
Rom 8:37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

My response to those who want to give up...first off is to pray that the Holy Spirit will comfort them. Then, to show them God's Love by loving them. If anyone is reading this right now and wants to give up... Please know of this truth...

Jhn 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

Much Love in Christ, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on February 14, 2010 at 11:04am

Ok Guys - Great stuff.
I am closing this forum now, but I must say: "What a pleasure it has been to see Christians jump at the chance to defend the Bible." How excited I get when I think of the Lord's words to each of you: "Well done my good and faithful servants." But of course this is why the Lord has placed you here on AAG.

Greg you must not be left out of the accolades. It is your platform and you were definitely inspired the day you decided to start AAG. Thank you and thank you one and all for the stout effort you put in. -

May I suggest that in our Christian experience we will come across people who require help on the problems presented in this forum. Why not Copy and Save all the replies on your PC (I personally battle sometimes to find some of the forums) It would then be great to have it on hand to either work through or present as a printout.
Perhaps even use as a Presentation at a Bible study.
Fortunately I can boast about this because it is not mine, but YOUR work, I simply edged you on.
The Lord Bless and keep you all in the centre of His will.

Blessings.... Ron (The devil's Advocate) What a terrible name but it serves it's purpose here.

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