All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
From the Pit of Hell
Righteous Christians.
So miserable wretch, what makes you believe that you have attained eternal life?
Your heart is still laden with sin, your mind continues it’s desperately wicked thoughts.
Time after time you fail in your righteous promises for today, just as you did yesterday.
What hope is there for you tomorrow when you stand with one foot in the grave and the other in Hell? What you say and what you do are two different things. Meanwhile you are hopelessly lost!
These are the accusations against you by the enemy. What is your response to those who receive these daily accusations and want to give up?
Ron.
Views: 102
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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1. So miserable wretch, what makes you believe that you have attained eternal life?
2. The heart is abundantly deceitful, so it will be easy to think we have salvation when we don’t. The questions that come up are the following two. Is It possible to have assurance of our salvation and is it even desirable to have it?
God commands us to examine our selves. Not only can we have the assurance of salvation, but God in His word commands us to have such assurance. The sad truth is that most Christians think that if a person claims assurance of salvation, that person is arrogant and prideful.
2 Peter 1:10 “therefore brethren be more diligent to make your election Sure,” through a diligent pursuit of that.
ASSURANCE of our SALVATION IS NOT AN OPTION FOR US!!!! IS A MANDATE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE SETTLED IN OUR LIFES. THAT WE ARE IN CHRIST AND HAVE BEEN ADOPTED INTO THE FATHERS HOUSE.
Why? Because God said it, Jesus said it ( the word says it and i believe it):
John 10:28
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Also because the Spirit bears witness of the Spirit and there is fruit in ones life.
1. Your heart is still laden with sin, your mind continues it’s desperately wicked thoughts.
2. My mind is being renewed by the word of God and i am learning to take every thought captive to the obediance of Christ, but mainly: Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
1. Time after time you fail in your righteous promises for today, just as you did yesterday.
2. 1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (New King James Version)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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That sounds great, but I have difficulty in believing all that. So perhaps someone could help me with this?
Ron
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hahaaha right hahaha
Ok then - well My friend, is not about what you feel (thank God) or emotions (Praise God), it's simply about believing the Word of God.
ohhhh my bad, that is the problem though, believing the word.
Don't give up friend, God loves you beyond your mistakes. He Loved you before you were save and now that you are His, He will never leave you nor forsake you and He will keep you.
dv
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Yes! Thank you Dave...... But How do I know that the Bible is in fact, the very Word and promises of God? It's just a book like many others. Are you and any others able to prove, that without any doubt, the Bible is the very Words of God? In helping me I am sure you will be helping many others with any doubts they may have about the Bible actually being the words of God.
Ron
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John 9:18-29 (New King James Version)
18 But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind and received his sight, until they called the parents of him who had received his sight. 19 And they asked them, saying, “Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?” 20 His parents answered them and said, “We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; 23 Therefore his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”
24 So they again called the man who was blind, and said to him, “Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner.”
25 He answered and said, “Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see.”
No other book describes the human condition better than the bible. Not even close, we are blind and lost without God.
I CAN GIVE THE FOLLOWING MAPS AND YOU STILL CAN DOUBT.
M- Manuscripts - we have thousands of manuscripts to prove the validity of the Word of God.
A -Archeology -We have a multitude of archeological findings that validates the cities and cultures mentioned in the bible.
P- Prophecy- we have hundreds of prophecies fulfill in Christ a lone, not to mention numerous others.
S - Statistical evidence- we also have statistical evidence as well. :)
Romans 1:
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
This is what we call Natural revelation. God reveals Himself in nature, His finger print is in all He has made and although this revelation is perfect through nature, you must remember that is being viewed by finite, imperfect folks. This revelation is enough to leave us without an excuse, but not to enough to save us.
The thing about Christianity (born again) is that it must be experience and not so much explained, so I revert back to the blind man and tell you the following:
ALL I KNOW IS THAT I WAS BLIND AND NOW I SEE. HOW DO I KNOW THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD, WELL IT CHANGED ME. WHEN I DID WHAT IT INSTRUCTS THE LOST TO DO, WHAT IT SAYS WOULD HAPPEN, HAPPENED!
:) Don't know if I answered your question.
Blessings
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Thak you Dave,
And as my Jewish friends are inclined to say: "And Noooo..... Who else....... can add to this?"
Who else can really hammer the nail in to make it convincing"
Ron
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Permalink Reply by rosslind parker on
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praise GOD my brother may GOD keep on using you well said bless you AMEM
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Hi Ron,
Good to see you.
For me, I know that I know that I'm saved. I also know the Bible is truth, complete truth. Every time I think I have found an error, I continue the study of that topic and it becomes clear that what I thought was an error was my lack of knowledge about God and His Word.
One thing we need to realize is the more we study God and His ways, the more we are made aware of what we don't know about Him.
More study required.
My peace tells me I have attained eternal life, and that comes through my relationship with the Holy Spirit that dwells within me.
For anyone that feels as though they have their right foot on banana peel and the left one in hell, I say accept Christ as Savior and the Holy Sprit will move your left foot and firmly plant it at the doorway to God's kingdom (which is the right place to be.)
I would also tell them that there is no salvation obtained after death. Salvation is part of the *do it now" program.
Listen for the "voice" of the Holy Spirit is another thing. Thoughts that are evil can enter a Christians's mind but...the Holy Spirit will lead you to throw those thoughts out immediately.
Besides, if a person knows his thoughts are evil, that is a great starting place. unsaved people disregard evil thoughts as being evil. They protect those thoughts as their own thoughts. I don't think a Christian can do that.
I would also point out Satan lies versus God's Truth.
Blessings,
Rita
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Thank you Rita, But how do you prove to me and non believers, that the Bible is the VERY Word of God. Are you able to do that, If not then watch this space, I'm hoping for some erudite teaching from all the scholars here to help those who cannot put into words what they know to be true. In the meantime I am playing Devil's Advocate
Ron
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Ron -
i will include the following here for those interested and will get back to your excellent quiry shortly.
The Westminster Confession of Faith
Chapter I - Of the Holy Scripture.
i. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable;(1) yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation:(2) therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church;(3) and afterwards, for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing;(4) which maketh the Holy Scripture to be most necessary;(5) those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.(6)
(1) Ro 2:14,15; Ro 1:19,20; Ps 19:1,2,3; Ro 1:32; Ro 2:1
(2) 1Co 1:21; 1Co 2:13,14
(3) Heb 1:1
(4) Pr 22:19,20,21;Lk 1:3,4; Ro 15:4; Mt 4:4,7,10; Isa 8:19,20
(5) 2Ti 3:15; 2Pe 1:19
(6) Heb 1:1,2
ii. Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testament...
iv. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.(1)
(1) 2Pe 1:19,21; 2Ti 3:16; 1Jn 5:9; 1Th 2:13
v. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture,(1) and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole, (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet, notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth, and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit, bearing witness by and with the word in our hearts.(2)
(1) 1Ti 3:15
(2) 1Jn 2:20,27; Jn 16:13,14; 1Co 2:10,11,12; Isa 59:21
vi. The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men>.(1) Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the word;(2) and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the word, which are always to be observed.(3)
(1) 2Ti 3:15,16,17; Gal 1:8,9; 2Th 2:2
(2) Jn 6:45; 1Co 2:9,10,11,12
(3) 1Co 11:13,14; 1Co 14:26,40
vii. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all;(1) yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.(2)
(1) 2Pe 3:16
(2) Ps 119:105,130
viii. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;(1) so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.(2) But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them,(3) therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,(4) that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner;(5) and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.(6)
(1) Mt 5:18
(2) Isa 8:20; Ac 15:15; Jn 5:39,46
(3) Jn 5:39
(4) 1Co 14:6,9,11,12,24,27, 28
(5) Col 3:16
(6) Ro 15:4
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Hey Ron,
Here is my two cents :-)
Human intellect is limited. Without enlightenment by the Holy Spirit one will never truly find God or be sure of His existence.
Our hearts desire may be to live for Christ, but our spirits are weak. Without the empowerment of the Holy Spirit we will have no hope of living for Christ in this life.
How do we convince someone that God and His Word are ture? Three key factors. 1) Live an honest life in the Spirit before them and love them. Don't be a hypocrite. 2) Share the Word and encourage them to read it. You don't even have to try and convince them it is true. Simply get them into the Word. Lee Stoeble and Josh McDowell are great examples of people seeking to disprove and ended up believing. "Share Jesus without Fear" is a great approach to sharing the gospel.3) Know that the Holy Spirit will bring conviction, but as freewill beings they are free to reject. God gives them that freedom.
I resolved a long time ago that I cannot convince anyone. I can plead the case, but only God can convict/convince. When I debate or comment here on AAG my hope is always that the Holy Spirit will speak through the discourse to me and the others involved.
If someone ever tells you that the Bible is full of errors simply ask them to show you one. This will at least get them thinking and hopefully reading the Word that the Holy Spirit will use to eventually change their life.
The picture you paint reminds me of an unsaved religous legalist. The true believer recognizes he has been changed and accepted as a child of God. When he fails there is conviction that leads to repentance. If the true child is walking in rebellion he will experience divine discipline designed to correct and restore. Keep in mind that we start out as spiritual babes in Christ and need time to mature. We will need to learn to crawl, walk, run. We will need to move from milk to meat. Along the way there will be many trials. In these trials we will experience success and failure, but to the repentant heart we always find forgiveness.
Lastly, the knowing is not intellectual only, though the intellect is engaged. The knowing has to include spiritual enlightenment. Acts 1:8 teaches us that when the Holy Spirit comes on a person they will experience His presence, power and purpose. Every time I go into the pulpit I pray the same prayer that has deep meaning to me. It includes the desire for God to empty me of myself and fill me with His Spirit that it not be my words, but His. I can speak to the mind, but only the Holy Spirit can speak to the heart.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Theresa on
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Dear Ron,
I am reminded right now by so many scriptures. First of all, the fact that you are bombarded with these accusations may very well means that you are born again and saved.
Remember Our Lord Jesus in the wilderness and the conversation that took place between Him and Satan. It was a real conversation and if you are saved, then you will have the same thing happens to you here on earth, the question mark is what are your answers going to be when Satan comes with accusations?
Jesus says of Himself: He is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through Him, the Son. When we pray to God the Father, He hears us because of Jesus, He loves us because of Jesus, He forgives us because of Jesus, His Word said so, and that is enough to believe and we should all be happy and rest in this scripture alone. We are not the way, we are not the truth....Jesus is!
Remember the scriptures: God exalted His Word above His name, His Word talks about the blood of Jesus and that we are righteous and holy because of the Blood, it is not our own righteousness, it is by the Blood of Jesus that we can enter in and stay in, Amen. I encourage you to go and find scriptures that speaks about the blood of Jesus and what He alone by Himself has done for you and all of us.
King David did the unspeakable, he was not a very holy man, yet God says that king David was a man after His own heart.
Abraham and Sarah are my favorites, two of a kind and yet God said that Abraham is a man of faith. These are true stories, true people, they existed then and as long people are living on this earth, we will have the pleasure of running into people like them:)
Another scripture that comes to my spirit now and it is found in Luke 6:38 "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
I truly believe that this scripture is not just talking about money. I am convinced that anything we give will come back to us a way more, for example: if we give judgment on somebody that we do not agree with, if we say things about the person like: oh, this person is no good, he only calls himself a Christian, he is a looser, he is no good, he is worldly, he does not know his bible, he is lost, and we keep pronouncing judgment on him or her with our own words, then we should expect the same thing to happen to us, only double and triple and in some cases hundred fold. We may be very right in our assumptions about somebody or we may not be at all, our call is to pray and forgive the person of their sin if we believe that they are on the wrong track, our response always should be to imitate our Lord and take His side by speaking blessings into someone life. After all, Jesus says to love our enemies and love our brethren and love our neighbor. We are our worst enemies, the best thing we can do is agree with God and love ourselves, He is telling us too.
After the person obeys the Word of God that says nothing but the blood of Jesus, the person should ask God to forgive them of any sin that they have done, the Holy Spirit is Faithful to bring any forgotten sin to the surface, and once the person repented, then what is the problem?
You can open your mouth and say to the devil: Satan, you are absolutely right, I am so wicked and if it is depended on me, I will be pleasing you any chance I get, if not for the grace and the love of God my Father and the shed Blood of Jesus, then I have no chance whatsoever to even see heaven or even live right and serve God or be even a decent human being. Remember too, when we confess the covenant that God made with Abraham, how He told him: I will bless who bless you and curse who curse you.......Let us not forget that another Christian whom we do not think they are Christians but in God's eyes, they are, and they are confessing the same thing you are confessing. Let us not forget that there is so many King David and so many Moses and so many Abrahams and so many Sarah's and Ruth and Paul, Let us not forget that they are too saved but carry the same faults like these people in the bible.
Brother Ron, I probably, most likely will not meet you here on earth, but I know we will meet in heaven and what a Glorious moment that will be.
Love you, in Christ,
Theresa
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